Have the Short's Belfast be more successful with at least 300 sales.
More RAF orders?
More foreign sales?
Possible future improved versions?
Much obliged!
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Have the Short's Belfast be more successful
- Thread starter Fuzzy Dunlop
- Start date
Have the Short's Belfast be more successful with at least 300 sales.
More RAF orders?
More foreign sales?
Possible future improved versions?
Much obliged!
Have the RAAF pick up a different tactical transport such as the smaller C-123, which was available earlier than the original purchase of the C-130A in 1958. Originally there was a purchase of 12 Hercules in 1958, followed by another twelve in 1964. The second batch basically falls right in the period where the Shorts Belfast came into service, so picking up a squadron of ten would basically double the production of the Belfast.
That might keep the line open long enough for the RAF 47 squadron to be equipped with the Belfast instead of the C130 in late 1967, when the Beverly went out of service. This in turn would allow 26 squadron to be equipped with the Belfast in 1968. After that, 70 Sqn would also transition to the type in 1970 instead of the OTL C130.
That alone gives you 50 airframes from the RAAF and RAF instead of the OTL 10.
That might keep the line open long enough for the RAF 47 squadron to be equipped with the Belfast instead of the C130 in late 1967, when the Beverly went out of service. This in turn would allow 26 squadron to be equipped with the Belfast in 1968. After that, 70 Sqn would also transition to the type in 1970 instead of the OTL C130.
That alone gives you 50 airframes from the RAAF and RAF instead of the OTL 10.
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Maritime Patrol and Airborne Early Warning versions to replace the Shackletons. No withdrawal from East of Suez policy (not that it fully happened). Australia buys a Squadron to support their forces in Vietnam. Commercial sales to support the oil industry in the Middle East.
Ooh, I like this. The Shackletons went WAY too long without replacements and the Nimrods were... well, they weren't terrible, but they didn't need to be as bad as they were (the less said about the AEW Nimrod, the better). How plausible is this POD, though?
Should be doable
P-3 Orion payload was 20,000lb and was converted into an AEW platform
Belfast has a reported 78,000lb payload.
I didn't really mean the payload or other technical issues, I assume the airframe could handle it. And at worst the electronics could be moved across and bodged together. What I really meant was "could the political will to do this exist or plausibly be created?"
The Belfast is in production unlike the Comet the Nimrod was based on so the argument could be made that using the existing tooling is cheaper than resurrecting and updating a dead design. It needs to be done while the Belfast is still being produced though.
300 aircraft is a LOT for a strategic transport, and make no mistake the Belfast is much more than a scaled up Hercules.
A number of countries have a potential requirement for such a large aircraft, Australia is one but I'd also suggest Canada, India, South Africa, China and Brazil come to mind, as well as a decent number for Britain. Even so I doubt that much past 100 aircraft.
A number of countries have a potential requirement for such a large aircraft, Australia is one but I'd also suggest Canada, India, South Africa, China and Brazil come to mind, as well as a decent number for Britain. Even so I doubt that much past 100 aircraft.
I just had a thought.
Many of the 737-200s left flying are in Canada. Their low bypass engines keep them higher off the ground than newer models, and there is a special kit they use to blow air down and keep debris out of the engines. This allows them being used on gravel runways, which is the best you can get up there.
Those 737s are kept running in a 1st world nation LONG after their 'best by' date, because there just isn't anything else that can do the job.
If there were more Belfast, could they be used? They've got the needed range and capacity and presumably can handle austere runways even better than a 737.
Many of the 737-200s left flying are in Canada. Their low bypass engines keep them higher off the ground than newer models, and there is a special kit they use to blow air down and keep debris out of the engines. This allows them being used on gravel runways, which is the best you can get up there.
Those 737s are kept running in a 1st world nation LONG after their 'best by' date, because there just isn't anything else that can do the job.
If there were more Belfast, could they be used? They've got the needed range and capacity and presumably can handle austere runways even better than a 737.
A couple of things that need to be taken into consideration..
The Belfast was VERY slow, hence it’s nickname of ‘Belslow’.
It was intended as a heavy lift/strategic freighter, so replacing orders for C.130 which was a tactical freighter with Belfast’s is far from ideal. There was proposal for a tactical Belfast, but it would still be a large aircraft.
I think there was actually a suggestion of using the Belfast for Maritime Patrol, but again, it’s excruciatingly slow top speed, along with it being a great cavernous beast soon put paid to that.
The Belfast was VERY slow, hence it’s nickname of ‘Belslow’.
It was intended as a heavy lift/strategic freighter, so replacing orders for C.130 which was a tactical freighter with Belfast’s is far from ideal. There was proposal for a tactical Belfast, but it would still be a large aircraft.
I think there was actually a suggestion of using the Belfast for Maritime Patrol, but again, it’s excruciatingly slow top speed, along with it being a great cavernous beast soon put paid to that.
This may be interesting to those here:
This is not my work, it came from TinWing over on SecretProjects. Check out their page on the Belfast, it is interesting stuff (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/shorts-belfast.1290/)
With that out of the way, here are the varients proposed that TinWing has summarized:
This is not my work, it came from TinWing over on SecretProjects. Check out their page on the Belfast, it is interesting stuff (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/shorts-belfast.1290/)
With that out of the way, here are the varients proposed that TinWing has summarized:
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It is 1965 the USA is building up forces in Vietnam and is desperate for long range heavy lift because of fuselage fatigue problems in the C133. The final straw for the USAAF is the crash of 2 C133s one taking off from Wake Island with 180 Marines on board and one from Denver with a Thor missile on board. Both aircraft disintegrating when small fatigue cracks in the skin grew from less than an inch to 20 feet long during the climb to cruising altitude. The Denver crash causes civilian casualties from debris landing in a smal town.
Looking around for a available replacement the only design big enough for USAAF use is the Belfast. The RAF happily hands over its now unwanted order of 10 and production swings into high gear to produce the 300 required. After the initial 50 are built in N Ireland assembly commences in the USA from components supplied by Shorts and Canadair, from airframe no 75 USA built parts begin to be integrated into the assembly line and by airframe no 126 only the engines, and tail are British origin, Canadair continue to supply controls and flight equipment.
Looking around for a available replacement the only design big enough for USAAF use is the Belfast. The RAF happily hands over its now unwanted order of 10 and production swings into high gear to produce the 300 required. After the initial 50 are built in N Ireland assembly commences in the USA from components supplied by Shorts and Canadair, from airframe no 75 USA built parts begin to be integrated into the assembly line and by airframe no 126 only the engines, and tail are British origin, Canadair continue to supply controls and flight equipment.
Never heard of this plane before, it looks like a C-130, does it have the same capability.
I'm liking this! . . . . it has a bit of an earlier C-17 feel about it.
It's much bigger - the maximum payload of a Belfast was 78,000lb, that's theoretically enough to lift an empty C130H.
The Herc's maximum capacity is about 42,000lb and the Belfast is 40ft longer, 10ft taller and has a 25ft wider wingspan.
(Numbers from wiki).
Could more being sold if it was a Commonwealth project with Canada, Australia and maybe India taking part.
It's way bigger, nearly double the payload of the C-130.
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It's a possibility, although the Australians and Canadians don't really have armed forces big enough to add more than a handful of orders to what the RAF get.
A bigger RAF order might bring the price down enough for attract other nations such as the Indians too.