Have Poland keep its Easten boarders of 1939 after WWII

Poland has its western Boarders of 1949 as well as it eastern Boarders of 1939 . How could this come about and how much of a difference would this of made in the cold War .
 
pretty sure its impossible. the soviet union would not give up the land, even to a fellow communist nation. it would also make poland a bit more powerful than it really should be.
 
Poland having both is impossible.

If, by great good fortune, Germany knocks out the USSR completely, or at least weakens it to the point that it is entirely dependent on the west and has an extremely weak bargaining position, deciding on postwar frontiers will be up to the Anglo-Americans, who may restore the 1939 borders in the east. But then Poland is unlikely to get anything close to 1949 borders in the west. There may be some gains in Silesia and East Prussia, but that's it.

If Stalin has anything to say in the matter, however, the first thing he'll want will be shifting the USSR's borders to the west. Perhaps if the Polish government-in-exile does agrees to make some sort of agreement with the USSR soon after Barbarossa instead of trying to keep its eastern half in its entirety, Poland might retain some areas, such as Lvov. Settling the western frontier will proceed more or less independently.
 

MSZ

Banned
Perhaps if the Polish government-in-exile does agrees to make some sort of agreement with the USSR soon after Barbarossa instead of trying to keep its eastern half in its entirety, Poland might retain some areas, such as Lvov. Settling the western frontier will proceed more or less independently.

OTL had the Sikorski-Maysky Agreement, which the Soviets did not respect in the end. So no, if a war happens, Poland loses it's eastern border, unless by some miracle the western allies make it there first.
 
OTL had the Sikorski-Maysky Agreement, which the Soviets did not respect in the end. So no, if a war happens, Poland loses it's eastern border, unless by some miracle the western allies make it there first.

My mistake. Yes, in the absence of a meltdown of the USSR, Soviet goodwill - which is not likely to be forthcoming - is also needed. Edit: but was a new Polish-Soviet border drawn in that agreement? All I found as far as territorial agreements go was that the USSR no longer considers its treaties with Germany valid, but nothing more.
 
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This would happen when the conveniently-destructive-enough asteroids hit Berlin and Moscow simultaneously in 1943. Without that, the USSR will not let the Poles keep land they won by an opportunistic invasion.
 
Poland having both is impossible.

If, by great good fortune, Germany knocks out the USSR completely, or at least weakens it to the point that it is entirely dependent on the west and has an extremely weak bargaining position, deciding on postwar frontiers will be up to the Anglo-Americans, who may restore the 1939 borders in the east. But then Poland is unlikely to get anything close to 1949 borders in the west. There may be some gains in Silesia and East Prussia, but that's it.

Why not? OTL shifting of Poland's west border was approved by western powers too.
 
pretty sure its impossible. the soviet union would not give up the land, even to a fellow communist nation. it would also make poland a bit more powerful than it really should be.

Not to mention that many of the people living there were Ukrainians who really did not want to live in "Poland".
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
ASB. The Soviets wanted all of the non-Polish (Ukrainians and Byelorussians) "back." There's no way that Poland is going to retain that territory.
 
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Plus, even before Barbarossa Soviets killed most of intelligentsia from that region in Katyn, and deported hundreds of thousands of ethnic Poles to Siberia/Kazakhstan.
 
Poland lost its eastern boundary because Stalin wanted it because it had lots of Belarussians and Ukrainians living there. In response, the Allies agreed to compensate Poland with German land east of the Oder. In any scenario, keeping the eastern boundary causes Poland to lose the reason it was given the German land to begin with. So this is going to be very difficult.

The only way Poland can keep its eastern border is if the Western Allies get there first. This requires the Soviet Union to do worse than it did OTL. If you give the Germans a few breaks in 1941-1942, this may be possible. A lot of the German casaulties came when they overextended themselves. A bit more prudence and better planning can avoid the worst German defeats. This puts Germany is a better position on the Eastern Front that avoids the catastrophic failure after Stalingrad. Instead, the Germans are well placed, and in 1943 attempt to finally take the Caucasus and the oil wells at Baku instead of OTL battle at Kursk. The Red Army finally has a decisive success in 1943 and begins pushing back the Germans. However, in 1944 they are about 2 years behind schedule.

The Western Allies cross the channel in 1944. Soviets coordinate their attack to keep German forces pinned deep in Russia. Better luck on the Allies' part means they secure the Scheldt Estuary and Antwerp becomes fully open. The Failsaise Gap is closed. Britain's XXX Corps doesn't stop, but pushes on in Belgium reaching the Rhine. Better supply means Patton continues past Metz. Eisenhower doesn't order Dever's 6th Army Group to not cross the Rhine. Instead, the Allied Armies cross the Rhine in early autumn 1944. While Hitler begins to pull troops off the Eastern Front to secure things in the West, it is too late, it only causes the Eastern Front to collapse. Western Allied armies flood into Germany, hoping to end the war before winter. Patton races across Germany and enters Poland where he is quickly aided by a national uprising of the Polish Home Army. Underground Polish troops effectively occupy their pre-1939 borders. In short order, the war is concluded.

Germany is divided into occupation zones. There are 5 occupying powers - The UK, US, USSR, France, and Poland (in recognition of its continuing ability to resist and to acknowledge it being the first to fight in WWII). Poland occupies the territories it received IOTL - Prussia, Silesia, and the Transorder. The Allies discuss peace plans. Everyone agrees Germany is too strong. Poland and the Western Allies want a strong state in Central Europe that can stand on its own. The Soviets object, but can't do too much. Although they engaged and fought 80% of all German forces, that their troops never reached Germany during the war hurts their negotiating strength. It is decided Poland will gain the German territories it is currently occupying which has a lot of German industrial strength. In return, the Poles agree on a friendship treaty with the Soviets, guarantee the supply route access for the Red Army occupation zone, and that some of the goods in the German zone it is absorbing will instead be sent to the Soviets as part of Germany's repatriations to the USSR.

With the new map in Europe, the Cold War basically does not happen. None of Eastern Europe is occupied by the Red Army. Even the Baltics regain their independence. Confirmation of the Katyn Massacre and other Soviet crimes damages Soviet prestige, limiting their appeal. Marshall Aid still happens, but there is no NATO. Poland is allied to Britain and France however, and all three countries have security arrangements with the Soviets. Actual peace terms are agreed to with Germany in the 1950s, ending the occupation. The expanded Poland becomes part of the European security network.

International relations is built around the prospect of renewed German hostilities, not a Communist threat. Because the Soviet Union doesn't occupy Eastern Europe, many of the problems between the US and USSR never happens. Communist parties briefly flourish in the 1940s and hold positions in government, but the honeymoon is quickly over as it becomes apparent they take their instructions from Moscow. Other political parties begin to exclude them from their governments, and the Communist parties prove incapable of seizing power without the direct help from the Red Army.

Losing out in Europe, the Soviets attempt to make gains in Asia. When they enter the war against Japan, they quickly occupy Manchuria and all of Korea. Stalin pushes that Manchuria retain its independence as a Soviet satellite, and the same happens in Korea (there is no division). The US accepts the fait accompli despite the protests of Chiang Kai-Shek. Satisfied that some gains were made, Stalin does not support Mao in China, not wanting to upset his allies. The CCP remains a legal party in China, but most of its leaders move to Manchuria to set up a Communist state under Soviet guidance. This creates problems in Asia, but since only Europe is seen as important, it doesn't lead to a Cold War scenario.

The above is certainly not a likely outcome of WWII, but it's theoretically possible.
 
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