Have Brazil buy 2 decommissioned "Invincible" class and Chile the 3rd post 2000?

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
As the thread states, get Brazil to buy 2 decommissioned "Invincible" class and Chile the 3rd post 2010?

Could this be done?

Regards
 
Invincible was to have been sold to Australia for 175M pounds in in 1982 at a near new state. Brazil did end up buying the HMS Ocean for 84M pounds in 2018. I'm imagining that Brazil could get the older Invincible and Illustrious for probably no more than 125M. That said, there were no other nations seeking to buy them for further service so you would not have to worry about a bidding war. The highest offer that the UK got was from a Chinese businessman who bid 5M to purchase Invincible and turn her into a school.

For Brazil the question then would be the same as when they purchased the Foch - how much of a money pit are the two older carriers? Yes, you've gotten them cheaply but can Brazil then afford the significant upkeep costs?
 
What would they be used for? They're limited to V/STOL aircraft or helicopters

Yes, that is what I was thinking too. At least with the Foch, Brazil was getting a nominal, catapult launched fixed wing capability. Purchasing the two Invincibles works only in the long-term if Brazil is planning on making F-35 purchases....or they plan on an expensive rebuild of both ships to fit them with catapults.
 
Yes, that is what I was thinking too. At least with the Foch, Brazil was getting a nominal, catapult launched fixed wing capability. Purchasing the two Invincibles works only in the long-term if Brazil is planning on making F-35 purchases....or they plan on an expensive rebuild of both ships to fit them with catapults.
Any rebuild to give the Invincibles CATOBAR capability would be of the "remove nameplate, slide under new ship, reaffix nameplate" sort. Any extant catapults require steam, which their propulsion system does not produce, and the only ones that might fit are the 52m catapults on Foch, the short version of the US C-13 is 80m overall which is too big for the Invincibles. They could wait for EMALS, but then you still need a shit load of power and a special variant made
 
Any rebuild to give the Invincibles CATOBAR capability would be of the "remove nameplate, slide under new ship, reaffix nameplate" sort. Any extant catapults require steam, which their propulsion system does not produce, and the only ones that might fit are the 52m catapults on Foch, the short version of the US C-13 is 80m overall which is too big for the Invincibles. They could wait for EMALS, but then you still need a shit load of power and a special variant made

That's what I thought. They would have been better off rebuilding the Sao Paulo if they were looking to spend that amount of money.
 
What’s the state of the USMC AV8B harrier Fleet? My understanding is that the spares situation is basically one of cannibalising other harriers to keep the last ones flying? A bit like the British ones 10 years ago. If the situation is better then perhaps the Brazilian and Chilean fleets could buy ex-USMC harriers? Otherwise have them as ASW helicopter carriers only. Is the Foch currently operating any fixed wing?
 
What’s the state of the USMC AV8B harrier Fleet? My understanding is that the spares situation is basically one of cannibalising other harriers to keep the last ones flying? A bit like the British ones 10 years ago. If the situation is better then perhaps the Brazilian and Chilean fleets could buy ex-USMC harriers? Otherwise have them as ASW helicopter carriers only. Is the Foch currently operating any fixed wing?

No, the carrier was decommissioned. She was turning into a money pit for Brazil. The carrier underwent a five year modernization between 2005 and 2010 and did not renter service until 2011. A year later she suffered a major fire and was decommissioned. Sao Paulo was still undergoing repairs in 2016 when Brazil announced she would be modernized again. Her engines and catapult were to be repaired. Shortly afterwards the plan was cited as uneconomical and cancelled.
 
No, the carrier was decommissioned. She was turning into a money pit for Brazil. The carrier underwent a five year modernization between 2005 and 2010 and did not renter service until 2011. A year later she suffered a major fire and was decommissioned. Sao Paulo was still undergoing repairs in 2016 when Brazil announced she would be modernized again. Her engines and catapult were to be repaired. Shortly afterwards the plan was cited as uneconomical and cancelled.


Ah I see Decommed 22nd Nov this year!

Right then so the only Fixed wing Brazil operated from her was Skyhawks

So arguably they might have been able to operate harrier and AEW + ASW helos like the British had done from the Invincible carriers

They were younger than Foch and keeping one in commission at any one time would probably be doable and I would imagine that operating costs would be less than the older French ship

They could also have been operated in the pure Rotary wing role as a multi purpose helicopter carrier in the same fashion that I understand PHM Atlântico (ex-HMS Ocean) will be operated by the Brazilian Navy without fixed wing aircraft
 
While one or two Invincible class carriers are obviously a better option for Brazil than Foch/Sao Paulo, which turned out to be nothing more than a money pit, the question is of course timing. Foch/Sao Paulo was transferred to Brazil in 2000/2001 while HMS Invincible was not decommissioned until 2005. You need a POD where the RN starts decommissioning its Invincible class carriers earlier and offers them as the newer/cheaper/easier to sustain option than Foch which really did very little except sit in port and catch on fire.
 
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