Have arcane UK undergo either revolution or break up

Britain is a very arcane and quite anarchranistic a country. It in many ways resembles Austria-Hubgary more than any modern country, in the sense that is a union of different peoples, or to put it bluntly, an English empire. It also reassembles in many ways a pre-democratic, pre-enlightenment empire with all 'ye olde' institutions such as the nobility and city guilds. Also, lack of a written constitution.
The only part of the United Kingdom to follow the trend was Ireland after the First World War, and it is now a modern, secular, tricolour, democratic Republic.

Have Britain, around the time of the First World War, follow the AHE, the Ottomans and the German Empire, along with Tsarist Russia, to the knackers yards, with all four countries becoming independent and sovereign nations (England doesn't have to become a republic, but the three others do.) They all have to become modern nation states, with ye olde institutions and traditions done away with, and with written constitutions.
Bonus points if England gets to inherit her former states' colonies as though nothing happened.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
...bweh?
Pre-enlightenment, pre-democratic?

...is this really Post 1900?
Are you saying this about now?

I feel confused at the idea that the Mother of Parliaments is not actually democratic... and that Britain isn't a modern country.
 
To get that, you'd really need the UK to lose the war I feel. You could set the foundations of such a thing in a victorious WW1 and have it expressed in the Great Depression, maybe.

I would hardly describe the UK has pre-Enlightenment. The actual nobility have very little real power and the House of Lords is now populated by the new nobility. And a union of different peoples isn't rare - Switzerland is, so is the US, India, Russia, China...anywhere that isn't ethnocentric essentially. As Saphroneth noted, its the mother of the Westminster system, which it has stayed true to for centuries, not to mention that liberalism has been an important part of British democratic tradition. Many of these traditions survived not just because they're traditions but for many other reasons too.

And if an uncodified constitution makes the UK arcane and anachronistic, then I'm glad the UK is arcane and anachronistic.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Possibly the nature of the UK's path through history has somewhat obscured things.

If you want the violent revolution in the UK which changed its nature from absolute-monarchy dominated by nobility to a nation in which parliament is supreme, then it's actually not a UK revolution at all - the change took place between the Union of the Crowns and the Union of the Parliaments. (Three Kingdoms War.)


The transition from landed sufferance to universal suffrage was gradual and did not involve a revolution (though there was considerable unrest) - the Great Reform acts are where to look there.
Ultimately the UK had full universal suffrage approximately two decades before France did, for example.


If you want when the nobility lost their ability to influence things, it was a gradual process that took decades but which was indeed undergoing the final phases during WW1 - the Liberals broke the power of the Lords to reject a Budget around the time of the war, and that combined with the heavy casualties suffered by the gentry and nobility during WW1 to pretty much make it a done deal by OTL 1918.
 
Heres a thought,britain does way worse in WW2 and hitler doesnt attack anyone else untill he finished them off.

Maybe dunkirk gets overrun and the italians by some miracle do better in the mediteranian overunning malta from the get go and making amphibious assaults across egypt(i know they are to incompetent for that but in this case mussolini going insane with excitement could compensate,there just needs to be a feeling that africa is being overrun).

We could also have the luftwaffe avoid the cities entirely and just focus on pummeling rail links and RAF bases,add some more functional U-Boat torpedoes sinking several battleships in full view of everyone and you could destroy britains confidence.

They lost a the whole proffesional part of their army either killed or hostage,their air force is getting decimated,their navy is embarassed,the mediteranian is being overun by the italians and not a single city or civilian in britain has been directly killed by the germans.

At this point the welsh and scots might say fuck this and demand peace and independence since the incompetent british government has already got them into two world wars they could have easily avoided.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
erm, okay. Probably shouldn't have opened by claiming that the Britain is pre-enlightened and not a modern nation. Frankly one of the most insulting openings I've seen on this board, especially given how the criteria for a modern state is apparently a 'constitution' and to do away with the institutions, have democratic elections (I mean, I could have sword I voted a few months ago), and to be secular (so Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, Norway, Malaysia, Greece, Argentina and a lot more fail this hurdle) but for civility, let's answer your questions and have the 'arcane' United Kingdom undergo a breakdown.

The United Kingdom, even after winning the First World War, had the possibility of breaking down. The Battle of George Square between Government Forces and Protesters escalates into a full scale rebellion. The Rebellion gains traction, fighting an Irish-like war in Scotland and the North, Revolutionary movements breaking out elsewhere on the Nation. Government forces begins to fight them, much stronger and more organised, as well as possessing larger and more trained force. The King is killed and the Royal Family flee out of fear of further assassinations. The Government Forces, supported by France and America, crush the rebellions, with the leader of the forces declaring himself Lord Protector. This situation remains as such for a few decades until a counter-revolution overthrows the Lord Protector and opens a French Style state.
 

perfectgeneral

Donor
Monthly Donor
I see nothing democratic in being a prisoner of a binding constitution. Just try leaving the union, no matter how badly your state is treated (ask Mississippi, West Virginia, Alabama, South Carolina, New Mexico, Kentucky, Idaho, Arkansas, Montana, Maine...Catalonia, Basque, Cosica, Brittany...).
 
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"Tricolour" is an interesting criterion to throw in there.
What would that make the US?

Tacky.:p
Just in terms of flag design, the stars and stripes are fairly gaudy and overwrought, IMO. But it gets the job done.

It's interesting that a few commenters seem to be throwing back problems of the US at this guy. Is he even a Yank? He put a 'U' in tricolor, after all, and seems to be holding up continental European government as the desired state of affairs.

But I guess it is easier to rag on the US.:p
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Tacky.:p
Just in terms of flag design, the stars and stripes are fairly gaudy and overwrought, IMO. But it gets the job done.

It's interesting that a few commenters seem to be throwing back problems of the US at this guy. Is he even a Yank? He put a 'U' in tricolor, after all, and seems to be holding up continental European government as the desired state of affairs.

But I guess it is easier to rag on the US.:p

For my part it's because the US is a good counterexample on some things. I actually think he's from Aberystwyth based on past posts of his.
 

perfectgeneral

Donor
Monthly Donor
If the UK was a state in the USA it would be the 13th most prosperous by income per capita. Canada has all but Connecticut* and DC beat.

*always thought is was Conneticut, is wiki pulling my leg again?
 

Saphroneth

Banned
If the UK was a state in the USA it would be the 13th most prosperous by income per capita.

It'd also be the most populous by a huge, politics-warping margin - apportioned relative to the current 538 electoral votes it would have about 91 (thus making the EV total 629), or to put it another way it would have about half as much clout again as California OTL.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
It's interesting that a few commenters seem to be throwing back problems of the US at this guy. Is he even a Yank? He put a 'U' in tricolor, after all, and seems to be holding up continental European government as the desired state of affairs.

But I guess it is easier to rag on the US.:p

Given how the OP talks big about Ireland during this period, I suspect they're a friend from across George's Channel, although this is purely speculative, although there use of he improper 'ye olde' when bringing up out institutions makes me think they might be American. Then again, they could be Welsh for all we know.
 
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