Hashemite kingdom of Arabia

[Teejay]

The POD is that Hussein of Hejaz defeats the House of Saud and is not ousted of Arabia as he was in OTL. A good POD would be that Hussein decided not to declare himself as Caliph of all the Muslims after the abolition of the Ottoman caliphate in October 1924, thinking it was not a good idea.

Instead of the House of Saud ruling Arabia, you have the Hashemites ruling and being custodans of both Mecca and Medina instead. Apart from Saudi Arabia being not the absolute Wahabi hell hole which it is in OTL.

Effects anyone?

 

[ramones1986]

Well, Jeddah would possibly become the capital of this kingdom

 

[Teejay]

Jeddah would definitely be the capitla of this kingdom. One side effect of a Hashemite Kingdom of Arabia is that, is that the Wahabi sect of Islam would not be as prominent in in this TL. Because in OTL Saudi petro-dollars ($US100 billion) have been instrumental to spreading Wahhabism throughout the Islamic world, you would see local "folk" Islam still being dominant in much of the Islamic world. Also opponents of Wahabism which are essentially the Islamic Reformation, could have successfully launched an Islamic "counter-reformation".

 

[Simon]

The main challenge is finding a way for the Hashemites to be strong enough to not only survive within their self-declared borders, which they failed to do in our timeline, but also then turn around and successfully invade and annex the Saudi Emirate of Nejd, plus I'm assuming later the Emirate of Asir if you want the full Arabia. Unless you can find some way to massively boost the Hashemites, which probably means the British, I think a more likely outcome would be a surviving Kingdom of Hejaz along the Red Sea coast that also absorbed the Emirate of Asir and a Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in central Arabia and along the Gulf.

That aside its going to turn a large swathe of the Middle East into a Hashemite family business - you'd have Hussein and later his first son Ali ruling Arabia, Abdullah as Emir of Transjordan after turning down Iraq, Faisal as King of Iraq after being removed from Syria, and Zeid floating about as a spare. I've sometimes wondered what might have happened if Zeid had been more open to the French terms in Syria than Faisal and his supporters and become King of Syria under their sphere of influence, but that's getting away from things.

 

[Arkenfolm]

The main challenge is finding a way for the Hashemites to be strong enough to not only survive within their self-declared borders, which they failed to do in our timeline, but also then turn around and successfully invade and annex the Saudi Emirate of Nejd, plus I'm assuming later the Emirate of Asir if you want the full Arabia. Unless you can find some way to massively boost the Hashemites, which probably means the British, I think a more likely outcome would be a surviving Kingdom of Hejaz along the Red Sea coast that also absorbed the Emirate of Asir and a Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in central Arabia and along the Gulf.

Definitely a likely outcome. But the biggest thing going for the Hejaz is control over Mecca and Medina and the income those places would bring. The Saudis in Nejd still have the majority of the oil reserves and will still be extremely wealthy. It would probably make the city of Dammam much more important than OTL since it would be the major port for the Saudis and their emirate/kingdom.

 

[CountDVB]

The main challenge is finding a way for the Hashemites to be strong enough to not only survive within their self-declared borders, which they failed to do in our timeline, but also then turn around and successfully invade and annex the Saudi Emirate of Nejd, plus I'm assuming later the Emirate of Asir if you want the full Arabia. Unless you can find some way to massively boost the Hashemites, which probably means the British, I think a more likely outcome would be a surviving Kingdom of Hejaz along the Red Sea coast that also absorbed the Emirate of Asir and a Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in central Arabia and along the Gulf.

That aside its going to turn a large swathe of the Middle East into a Hashemite family business - you'd have Hussein and later his first son Ali ruling Arabia, Abdullah as Emir of Transjordan after turning down Iraq, Faisal as King of Iraq after being removed from Syria, and Zeid floating about as a spare. I've sometimes wondered what might have happened if Zeid had been more open to the French terms in Syria than Faisal and his supporters and become King of Syria under their sphere of influence, but that's getting away from things.

They'd need to find someone to suck up to and fast to achieve of this. Maybe they get backing from the Americans and perhaps the Americans could convince the rest of the powers to abandon the Saudi and go to the Hashemites. Maybe also Turkey could get involved in helping them.

 

[Arkenfolm]

They'd need to find someone to suck up to and fast to achieve of this. Maybe they get backing from the Americans and perhaps the Americans could convince the rest of the powers to abandon the Saudi and go to the Hashemites. Maybe also Turkey could get involved in helping them.

The Turks have so many internal issues to fight and settle at the time (i.e. Kurdish rebellions). I don't know why the Americans would back the Hashemites--why do they care for any sort of Islamic legitimacy, and besides, the Saudis have the oil (and the Americans of course have plenty of oil in Texas and California and elsewhere). The 1920s are a difficult time to find a power to back the Hashemites in Hejaz, since it would involve throwing Ibn Saud under the bus.

 

[CountDVB]

The Turks have so many internal issues to fight and settle at the time (i.e. Kurdish rebellions). I don't know why the Americans would back the Hashemites--why do they care for any sort of Islamic legitimacy, and besides, the Saudis have the oil (and the Americans of course have plenty of oil in Texas and California and elsewhere). The 1920s are a difficult time to find a power to back the Hashemites in Hejaz, since it would involve throwing Ibn Saud under the bus.

Which could be a point here. How to get the Hashemites to be the preferred party... Maybe support from a bunch of other nations or peoples like the Jewish?

 

[Simon]

Maybe they get backing from the Americans...

I don't believe the US had much of an interest in the area at the time and during this period it was pretty much a British sphere of influence. Post-Great War there was some debate within the British government over which side to back with the Foreign Office supporting the Hashemites and the India Office supporting the Saudis. They could decide to split the difference and support both which gets you both Kingdoms living side-by-side, if they fully swung behind the Hashemites it might be enough to see them win - although it comes with certain drawbacks like their potentially being painted as British puppets, the Emirate of Nejd signed a treaty making them a British protectorate in 1915 however so that might muddy the waters.