Harry Turtledoves "Hot War" trilogy seven years later

Marklin · Sep 27, 2022

So about seven years ago, Turtledove started writing the "Hot War" trilogy. The premise was that MacArthur got his way and used his nuclear weapons on the Chinese-Korean border, sparking off WW3. Now I haven't read the books since they first came out, and even then I have yet to read the final book in the trilogy. But I must ask, what is the general view regarding the trilogy here on this site and in general, now that a decent amount of time has passed? I remember it having interesting moments, mainly the perspectives of folks like Truman, and the instances where we got worldbuilding, but in hindsight I get the feeling that it may not have been the most realistic AH.

Anyhow, what are the thoughts?

freivolk · Sep 30, 2022

Marklin said:
So about seven years ago, Turtledove started writing the "Hot War" trilogy. The premise was that MacArthur got his way and used his nuclear weapons on the Chinese-Korean border, sparking off WW3. Now I haven't read the books since they first came out, and even then I have yet to read the final book in the trilogy. But I must ask, what is the general view regarding the trilogy here on this was,site and in general, now that a decent amount of time has passed? I remember it having interesting moments, mainly the perspectives of folks like Truman, and the instances where we got worldbuilding, but in hindsight I get the feeling that it may not have been the most realistic AH.

Anyhow, what are the thoughts?, but

I actually liked the series, but also had the feeling it was not the most really realistic. On the other side, what I had seen as most unrealictic was, that NATO was able to stop the Soviets before the Rhine, ut today, after Ukraine, its possible that I overestimate the soviet/russian Juggernaut.

Bbone91 · Oct 6, 2022

I honestly enjoyed it. While a lot of Harry’s foibles as a writer are on display, the series is fun, short and well done. I really think that the 1950s is underused as a World War 3 setting, since technology was still in the gravity bomb phase rather than the boring “Launch the rocket” that most World War 3 scenarios are.

Worffan101 · Oct 6, 2022

A thousand times better than The War that Came Early.

freivolk · Oct 6, 2022

I really would like a sequel of this. Especially to see how Germany would develope.

Odinson · Oct 6, 2022

The Hot War was probably my favorite series to come from Turtledove. I really liked the prose and it kept me hooked. The last novel was really good and I found the ending to be plausible.

the war ends with unchanged borders, but the Soviet Union is in a much weaker position than the United States as it has popular uprisings across the eastern bloc and growing instability. The United States got hit hard, but not as badly as the Soviets or France and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Marklin · Oct 7, 2022

Odinson said:
The Hot War was probably my favorite series to come from Turtledove. I really liked the prose and it kept me hooked. The last novel was really good and I found the ending to be plausible.

the war ends with unchanged borders, but the Soviet Union is in a much weaker position than the United States as it has popular uprisings across the eastern bloc and growing instability. The United States got hit hard, but not as badly as the Soviets or France and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Damn. What happens to China in this scenario, seeing how them being nuked is what escalated stuff? Also, does the nuke gap between the US and USSR come into play at all?

Odinson · Oct 7, 2022

Marklin said:
Damn. What happens to China in this scenario, seeing how them being nuked is what escalated stuff? Also, does the nuke gap between the US and USSR come into play at all?

China lost Harbin to an atomic bomb, and the country faces lots of conventional bombings, but I think only got nuked once. They more or less go back to the status quo from before the war and force N.K to pull back to the 38th parallel. As for the nuke difference, don't think its ever really addressed for story purposes.

Marklin · Oct 7, 2022

Odinson said:
China lost Harbin to an atomic bomb, and the country faces lots of conventional bombings, but I think only got nuked once. They more or less go back to the status quo from before the war and force N.K to pull back to the 38th parallel. As for the nuke difference, don't think its ever really addressed for story purposes.

Really? Just Harbin? I remember that from the book, but I assumed they would've done more as part of MacArthur's plan. I guess the nukes had to be diverted to the more important front.

Odinson · Oct 7, 2022

Marklin said:
Really? Just Harbin? I remember that from the book, but I assumed they would've done more as part of MacArthur's plan. I guess the nukes had to be diverted to the more important front.

IIRC, most of America's nukes were used in Europe or the USSR. Mao was moving too fast between villages to nuke him, while the United States killed Stalin by finding him after he was in one town too long.

Marklin · Oct 7, 2022

Odinson said:
IIRC, most of America's nukes were used in Europe or the USSR. Mao was moving too fast between villages to nuke him, while the United States killed Stalin by finding him after he was in one town too long.

Oh fuck, they got Stalin? Did they say who took over after him?

Man, I really need to reread the first book again. I've just been procrastinating because they're doorstoppers and I have ADHD, which is a great combo lol.

Odinson · Oct 7, 2022

Marklin said:
Oh fuck, they got Stalin? Did they say who took over after him?

Man, I really need to reread the first book again. I've just been procrastinating because they're doorstoppers and I have ADHD, which is a great combo lol.

They got stalin by using a H-Bomb on Omsk. Molotov took over after he got killed.

cortz#9 · Oct 7, 2022

Appreciate all the "spoiler" shields you guys are putting up in your posts, I haven't read "Hot War" yet but thanks to this thread I really want to now.

RamscoopRaider · Oct 7, 2022

Marklin said:
Really? Just Harbin? I remember that from the book, but I assumed they would've done more as part of MacArthur's plan. I guess the nukes had to be diverted to the more important front.

From what I recall Harbin was one of three nukes on China in the first wave, there were more later from what I remember

One of my big complaints about the series is that while the USSR seems to be able to use all of its nukes with perfect success, it doesn't really feel like the the US used more than a fraction of the ones it possessed at the time

Marklin · Oct 8, 2022

Looking back, I still remember how I first came across this series. It was actually my first Turtledove book in fact. I had to find a book to read for an independent reading assignment back when I was a freshman in high school and saw the book on the shelf. I had no idea it was an AH novel and assumed it was just a period peice about the Korean War. But then I get home and read the plot of the book on the back and I realize that this is AH (I was aware of what AH was of course, but I had only read one book of AH back in middle school). And the rest is history

In other thoughts, for some reason, I really would like to see something like this adapted into a TV show, just because the idea of a (semi-realistic) nuclear war in the 50s is something we don't see done very often.

numantia · Oct 13, 2022

I love these books. The only critic perhaps is that while we had Harry Truman and his inmediate enviroment we lack the same in the sovient side. It would have been cool to see what Stalin and his succesors were doing.