Harrold and William both dead at Hastings

the line of succession becomes even more murky...as williams sons (think robert and thingie were born by this point) would claim he conquered england and try to grab it themselves, whereas the english would still nominate harolds son as heir and with the normans withdrawing due to williams death theyd have time to rebuild and prepare
 
There's also Edward Edling or whatever his name was too, plus the French kings might see the opportunity to assert their authority over Normandy.

This could get crazy.
 
It would all depend on the other fatalities on that day and who was left in charge of the battlefield.

If either of Harold's brothers, Gyrth or Leofwine was left alive one of them could claim the throne on the grounds of being the last king's brother and one of the premier Earls of the kingdom. If both died then the next best claimant would be Edgar the Atheling who was passed over when his great uncle Edward the Confessor died on grounds of youth in the face of the Norman threat.

As to the Norman's William's eldest son, Robert, would have been at best only 15 at the age of his father's death and would have his work cut out securing Normandy, let alone advancing any claims to the English throne. If the Norman army had been defeated at Hastings paradoxically his task would much easier as most of those who could have caused him trouble would be dead as well. If either of William's principal leutenants, his half brothers Bishop Odo and Count Robert of Morain were dead then this would happen all the faster!

If the Normans had won at Hastings the chances are they wouldn't have advanced much further as the members of the army would be conscious of the trouble brewing at home thanks to Robert's miniority and would start sailing home to make secure their existing lands.
 
Edgar Aetheling was technically King Edgar II for a few weeks as the Witan elected him and did not submit to William at first. Even more likely to do so without William.
 
Edgar Atheling could come along and marry Gytha, daughter of King Harold, in order to ally himself with the Godwinesons, or Nesta, niece of the Earls Morcar and Eadwine.
 
This might very well prevent the norman conquest of England all together, I could imagine who ever descending from Harold would conquer Normandy in vengeance which could have all types of butterflies,
 
This might very well prevent the norman conquest of England all together, I could imagine who ever descending from Harold would conquer Normandy in vengeance which could have all types of butterflies,

I think the Normans left behind and the French king would have something to say about that.

Plus the more drawn out the expulsion of the Normans is, the more bloodied the English will be and the less capable they would be of launching a counter-invasion.
 
Everything is pretty fluid because there would be young rulers whose hold was somewhat tenuous in all the British earldoms, and the kingdom of England, the Duchy of Normandy, the Duchy of Brittany, in Wales, in Norway and in Denmark.

The Norman conquest was driven by William; without his drive and ambition I can't see any of his potential successors maintaining the campaign, even if the Normans had the best of the battle.

If Gyrth and Leofwine also fell at Hastings, the house of Godwin would be desperately short of senior leadership. There remained one last brother, Wulfnoth, a captive in Normandy. It would be greatly in the family's interest to get him released, even at the cost of an English earldom for Robert Curthose.

Edagr Atheling is the natural choice for king. I'd be surprised if Harold's sons even challenged him.
 
With a 15 year old duke and the resulting power struggle, perhaps the French King would use this an an opportunity to "mediate" and gain more power for himself at the expense of the nobility.
 
Sweyn of Denmark would probably invade, he was planning to already, and with all three of his rivals dead in the space of a week it'd seem like a golden opportunity.
 
yep ... the saxon Witan would gather behind Egdar (as they did OTL, in a last ditch attempt to deny William the throne, but he was never cornonated), due to him being the one with the legal claim, with him probably marrying into either Hwicce or Godwin for internal stability (no clue which alliance would be best) and marrying off his sister with Malcolm III of scotland to have external support.

While this is going on, Sweyn would notice that Egdar is young and the three other contestents (Harald, Harold and William) all lies dead, and attack the Saxons, probably in early 1067 or maybe even first in 1068 since we might get to far into the winter for conquest warring in 1066 for the throne, of which he is the other legal heir (both Haralds and Williams was questionable) ... he did try in the winter 1069-1070 to conquer england from a much stronger ruler than Egdar would have been with his young age and the protential issues with his vassals (either Hwicce of Godwin, depending on which of them he doesn't marry into) ... he might even have some succes with sweettalking some of Haralds old vassals into joining him, given their history where some of the norwegian cheiftans didn't like Haralds family on the throne.

@Bee ... would hardly call the kingdom of Denmark tenuous, Sweyn gained the throne in 1047 after a war with Magnus the good

@Some Bloke ... given that the French king at the time was about the same age as Edgar (Philip I of France gained the throne as 7 years old in 1060) ... i doubt he'd have the power to butt in and do it. And was likely to busy putting down vassals with high thoughts of themselves
 
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IIRC the Count of ?Boulogne tried his hand later, so might think it time to try it now. You could get the complete 3-way confusion of 1066 all over again!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Eustace II of Boulogne (which is the one i think you're talking about) was one of Williams supporters, and had previously had a feud with the Godwins, but rebelled against William due to greed (preceived lack of prober payment for the support)

... its not unlikely that if William died at hastings that he would do as well ... and i doubt that he would have had enough manpower (either by direct control, or alliances) to conquer England, even if it was weak at the time ... he might make a play declaring a feud with the Godwins for the duchy of Kent, and might even get away with it, unless Edgar allies with the Godwins, in which case Edgar and Hwicce might even pile on.
 
Eustace II of Boulogne (which is the one i think you're talking about) was one of Williams supporters, and had previously had a feud with the Godwins, but rebelled against William due to greed (preceived lack of proper payment for the support)

... its not unlikely that if William died at hastings that he would do as well ... and i doubt that he would have had enough manpower (either by direct control, or alliances) to conquer England, even if it was weak at the time ... he might make a play declaring a feud with the Godwins for the duchy of Kent, and might even get away with it, unless Edgar allies with the Godwins, in which case Edgar and Hwicce might even pile on.
He actually had a claim on the throne through descent from a daughter of Ethelred the Unready.
 
@Bee ... would hardly call the kingdom of Denmark tenuous, Sweyn gained the throne in 1047 after a war with Magnus the good

All right, I'll give you that Sweyn wasn't all that young and he had been around longer than I first remembered. However, he had got the worst of it by far in his war with Magnus of Norway, who ruled most of Denmark when he died. Sweyn did take over Denmark then (1047, as you said), but Harald Haradrada claimed the Danish throne once he was established in Norway, tried to enforce it by force of arms and won most of the battles.

Sweyn was free of the Norwegian threat only after he and Harald came to a peace agreement in 1064.
 
Perhaps the true kings would return with all the pretenders dead (the Aethelings).

Edgar taking power in the aftermath of the Mutual Kill of the Normans and Godwinssons is the most probable scenario, but then there's still Sweyn of Denmark.

Here's a really morbid thought. Edgar is in a weak position with the Saxon armies bloodied and the fresh Danes likely to come within the next year or so. He offers lands, money, etc. to the Norman survivors to bolster his rule, which I'm sure will piss off anti-Norman elements to no end.

In TTL, assuming they can see the Danes off, you'd see the Normans as an influential minority within the landholding class under native-Saxon rule.

At least in TTL you wouldn't see the Harrying of the North and the Saxon state would benefit from the inclusion of Norman heavy cavalry alongside the infantry fyrd.

AJNolte had a really interesting scenario in which the Normans arrive first and win an incomplete victory over the Saxons and Edgar cuts a deal with William to fight Hardrada in which William will be king and up to 1/3 of England can be fiefs for Norman supporters, but otherwise no dispossession, Edgar will be William's chief general and his line will be the backup for William's, etc.

This might be somewhat similar, minus William being king, the dynastic complications, and with a smaller overall Norman presence.
 
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