Harold Hardrada to Vineland

trajen777

Banned
The success or failure of the Vineland settlements came down to for major situations :

1. Lack of good land for cultivation
2. Not enough settlers vs the native population
3. A slight military advantage vs the native population (although in truth the Spanish only had a small number of cannon and hand guns in Mexico)
4. The disease that spread to the natives form the Spanish (major reason for victory) was not an ally of the Vikings

So lets say the settlements that leaf (a Icelandic Norwegian) had settled a more defensible and more prosperous land. It a long distance from New Newfoundland to NY (1033 ) miles. But lets say their was a series of southward explorations. In 1047 Hardrada settled in his Norwegian kingdom decides not to attack Denmark for the next 17 years but instead sends an expedition to Iceland, Greenland, and Vineland to take these under his rule. He sends a much greater number of settlers to Vinland, and with the explorations to the south they continue on to Manhattan. Their they settle. With disease and a much greater number of warriors they conquer Manhattan and use this is a base of trade and further population growth. The settlement is expanded dramatically because of trade and the rich farmland.

Using the conquest of Mexico as a reference point it is estimated that disease killed over 95% of the population in a 30 year time span.

What could the population have grown to ?
 
In my TL, I had Harald actually conquer Denmark, so that he gets a little more bold when doing his northern expedition, resulting in him going to Iceland&Greenland instead of along the Norwegian coast. In Greenland, he meets Snorri Thorfinsson, and decides to 'teach the Skraelings a lesson', whilst using his new Vinland settlements as a supply of wine 'made at the end of the Earth'.

In any case, I think you're right, in that a successful Norse settlement of the Americas would have to be a political project at first in order to get started.

As for population growth - maybe compare the rate of growth to that of early Canada OTL ?
 

trajen777

Banned
In my TL, I had Harald actually conquer Denmark, so that he gets a little more bold when doing his northern expedition, resulting in him going to Iceland&Greenland instead of along the Norwegian coast. In Greenland, he meets Snorri Thorfinsson, and decides to 'teach the Skraelings a lesson', whilst using his new Vinland settlements as a supply of wine 'made at the end of the Earth'.

In any case, I think you're right, in that a successful Norse settlement of the Americas would have to be a political project at first in order to get started.

As for population growth - maybe compare the rate of growth to that of early Canada OTL ?

Good points. One of the things i always felt is that the Viking settlement of Vineland was a poor place to build a settlement. So one of the keys for me was to go further south (build vinland is a fort vs settlement to explore south) and build a series of trade forts. As better land became available then the settlements could come about. I also think using islands would give a better defensive situation. So Vinland, Quebec city, Martha's vineyard, Manhattan,

Trade forts then settlements would be the best way for colonization. Disease, trade goods, and horses and steel could capture the farm land. In this way you could see massive migration.
 
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