Hannibal Anew

What would the consequences of a dissillusioned Hannibal offering his leadership as a general to the Romans after the Battle of Zama be?

I'm imagining that:
  • Hannibal is pissed off with Carthage after they failed to support him in his earlier campaigns.
  • He wants to further expand his reputation as a great general, and sees he can do this by fighting for his old enemy Rome.
  • He is ready to turn his back on Carthage, as they had on him.
  • He does not want to live out the rest of his life in exile.
Any ideas?
 

Hashasheen

Banned
What would the consequences of a dissillusioned Hannibal offering his leadership as a general to the Romans after the Battle of Zama be?


I'm imagining that:
  • Hannibal is pissed off with Carthage after they failed to support him in his earlier campaigns.
  • He wants to further expand his reputation as a great general, and sees he can do this by fighting for his old enemy Rome.
  • He is ready to turn his back on Carthage, as they had on him.
  • He does not want to live out the rest of his life in exile.
Any ideas?
ASB, Hannibal had a dedicated hatred of Rome thanks to his father, and would have taken his own life than side with them.
 
yea, asb theres no way he would do this, he swore on his fathers grave that he would avenge him by destroying Rome, in OTL he killed himself rather than be captured by romans
 
Well can't we have a POD where Hannibal isn't indoctrinated to hate Rome by his father.
e.g. His father teaches him to be gracious in defeat and to respect and learn from those who are better than him whoever they are (above all else)?
Therefore when Hannibal sees Scipio has learned from Hannibal himself, culminating in his victory at Zama, Hannibal thinks "aaah the pupil has become the teacher" and Hannibal then offers his services to Rome (the aforementioned points contributing to this) and Scipio and Hannibal live out their final years competing to be the best general in Rome, leading to an even powerful earlier Rome.

Work with me people! :p
 

Nikephoros

Banned
Well can't we have a POD where Hannibal isn't indoctrinated to hate Rome by his father.
e.g. His father teaches him to be gracious in defeat and to respect and learn from those who are better than him whoever they are (above all else)?
Therefore when Hannibal sees Scipio has learned from Hannibal himself, culminating in his victory at Zama, Hannibal thinks "aaah the pupil has become the teacher" and Hannibal then offers his services to Rome (the aforementioned points contributing to this) and Scipio and Hannibal live out their final years competing to be the best general in Rome, leading to an even powerful earlier Rome.

Work with me people! :p

His hatred of Rome could have contributed to him being such a good general. Also, Scipio became the general he was because he was present, and learned from, the battle of Cannae.

ASB all of the way.
 
Impossible. Romans feared and hated Hannibal. They would have never accepted him in their service. They would have never trusted him.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Well can't we have a POD where Hannibal isn't indoctrinated to hate Rome by his father.

The butterflies that would result from such a POD would probably prevent the Second Punic War from ever happening.

Work with me people! :p

You're missing the point of true Alternate History. It's not about trying to create the things we want, but about trying to realistically extrapolate what would have happened with plausible PODs.

In this particular case, there is simply no plausible way that Hannibal could have become a Roman general after losing the Battle of Zama. None at all. Zero. Nada. Zilch. No way, Jose. And so on and so forth.
 
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Why must Rome be the only choice?
What if Hannibal instead was to stay in Armenia at the court of Artaxias?
He apparently designed and planned the new capital city.
Or perhaps in the court of Bithynia, where he also advised King Prusias and served him in his war vs Pergamum. Egypt could have also used a man of his talents.

It would help if the Romans weren't so hung up on capturing/destroying him; it seems everyone wanted to betray him after a time.
 
Ok then lets see him go to Egypt, thats a good start!
I just want to see Hannibal rise from the ashes.
Like the Pheonix from Harry Potter! :p
 
Ok then lets see him go to Egypt, thats a good start!
I just want to see Hannibal rise from the ashes.
Like the Pheonix from Harry Potter! :p

He offered his services to Antiochus just before Antiochus took on Rome. The King opted not to use his services as he didn't want Hannibal to get credit for his victory over the Romans (then he lost-oops). You may want to ask what may have happened if Antiochus had accepted Hannibal's offer......:cool:
 
He offered his services to Antiochus just before Antiochus took on Rome. The King opted not to use his services as he didn't want Hannibal to get credit for his victory over the Romans (then he lost-oops). You may want to ask what may have happened if Antiochus had accepted Hannibal's offer......:cool:

You're correct, nay, more than correct. I've said this before, but only the Seleucids were realistically positioned to stop the Roman juggernaut-- and they blew it because Antiochus was a rank amateur. In fact, the Seleucids didn't even need Hannibal to stop Rome; only a competent leadership, which unfortunately that bombastic fool Antiochus couldn't provide. The Hellenistic monarchies were doomed by the fact none of their kings were worth a damn after 240 BCE or so. If the Seleucids possessed capable leadership at the time, then Roman empire might never have spread to the East, and the Western Latin Empire and Eastern Hellenistic Empire might have appeared several centuries early. The short of it is that Antiochus blew his chance, his chance to take Egypt due to his idiocy at Raphia, his chance to take Anatolia due to his idiocy at Magnesia, his chance for his successors to hold Iran due to his idiocy in ransacking temples for money, his chance to make the Seleucids Alexander's true successors. He destroyed the only chance the Hellenistic East had in stopping the spread of rapacious, bloodthirsty Roman tax collectors and generals, in stopping the tragedy like Sulla's sack of Corinth.
 
He offered his services to Antiochus just before Antiochus took on Rome. The King opted not to use his services as he didn't want Hannibal to get credit for his victory over the Romans (then he lost-oops). You may want to ask what may have happened if Antiochus had accepted Hannibal's offer......:cool:

Yeah, but what I really want to see is Hannibal working for Rome, not against it. I'm kind of hoping to discuss the effects of an early Roman spurt caused by Hannibal, and if this would lead to more foriegn generals offering their services to Rome. For example, make it standard that any general wishing to prove himself, goes to Rome, requests an Army, then goes about conquering lands for the Romans. Like an ancient version of militray schools, you know, the ones were non-Europeans came to be educated in the way of European warfare.

:)
 
Hannibal is never going to work for the Romans. His life mission was to see Rome fall. Since his major chance for that disappeared after the Second Punic War he spent the rest of his life making things difficult for the Romans.
 
OK, but what if foriegn generals offered themselves to Rome in order to make a name for themselves?


Northstar,

That's ASB too. This time, instead of deliberately ignoring Hannibal's rearing and beliefs, you're deliberately ignoring Rome's political system.

Becoming an army commander was an important step on the Roman "course of honor". As a patrician you were supposed to move upwards through a series of government posts of increasing responsibility and power culminating in a consulship. Successfully commanding an army in the field was one of the rungs on this ladder.

This means that army commanders were Romans and Romans only. Giving command of an army to a foreigner would mean removing that command from the purview of Rome's political elite. Simply put, they aren't going to give away the jobs they covet.


Regards,
Bill
 
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