Hamilton PODs

[Ravenclaw]

Having recently started listening to the musical Hamilton, I noticed its storyline (which is for the most part historically accurate) is ripe with opportunities for alternate timelines.
Some possible PODs:
Alexander Hamilton never leaves Nevis.
Burr becomes Washington's right-hand-man instead of Hamilton.
Alexander marries Angelica Schuyler instead of her sister Eliza.
John Laurens survives the war.
Hamilton is killed at any time during the war.
Burr is killed at any time during the war.
Hamilton and Jefferson are unable to come to a compromise.
Maria Reynolds never crosses paths with Alexander (this is explored here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/5678596)
Philip Hamilton survives his duel with George Eacker.
Alexander kills Aaron Burr in their duel.
Neither of them die in the duel.

What possibilities could these open up?

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

A lot of the time on this forum, there are always defenses of Hamilton, but there are also strenuous criticisms.

I think the last in-depth thread about discussing Hamilton ended up with the consensus with that he would never be President, simply because he was too much of an asshole and just a general backstabber.

Or to put it another way, he is not in the bein of being a gentleman like Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, or to a degree, even Burr.

 

[Ravenclaw]

A lot of the time on this forum, there are always defenses of Hamilton, but there are also strenuous criticisms.

I think the last in-depth thread about discussing Hamilton ended up with the consensus with that he would never be President, simply because he was too much of an asshole and just a general backstabber.

Or to put it another way, he is not in the bein of being a gentleman like Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, or to a degree, even Burr.

He wasn't born in the colonies, so unless they got rid of that requirement or annexed Nevis, he wouldn't become president anyway.
What could he have accomplished had he lived longer, though?

 

[TheSunKing]

He wasn't born in the colonies, so unless they got rid of that requirement or annexed Nevis, he wouldn't become president anyway.
What could he have accomplished had he lived longer, though?

I'm not sure what else he could have done. The Democratic-Republicans seized control after the Adams debacle, and never really lost it for the next while. He might have been able to do some stuff in New York or whatever state he would end up living in, and he might have been able to salvage some part of the Federalist party, but for the most part I think his star had set by the turn of the century.

At least, in my own opinion, going off the top of my head.

 

[Anaxagoras]

He wasn't born in the colonies, so unless they got rid of that requirement or annexed Nevis, he wouldn't become president anyway.

This is incorrect. Article Two, Section One, Clause Five specifies: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Hamilton was a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, so he was perfectly eligible to be President.

 

[Umbric Man]

Anax said it.

I quite like the guy but also agree he's too much an unpopular person, so to speak, to become President.

 

[Space Oddity]

He might have been able to do some stuff in New York or whatever state he would end up living in, and he might have been able to salvage some part of the Federalist party, but for the most part I think his star had set by the turn of the century.

Given Hamilton's track record, any efforts to salvage the Federalists on his part would likely result in the party's early immolation...

He was really kind of bad at politics when you get down to it...

 

[Beedok]

This darn musical. Makes finding stuff about my home town so hard...

 

[Anaxagoras]

Given Hamilton's track record, any efforts to salvage the Federalists on his part would likely result in the party's early immolation...

He was really kind of bad at politics when you get down to it...

It's worse than that. Hamilton spoke of using the military to put down his domestic political opponents. The more influence Hamilton gets, the more likely it is for America to turn into a Bonapartist style dictatorship.

 

[Sulemain]

It's worse than that. Hamilton spoke of using the military to put down his domestic political opponents. The more influence Hamilton gets, the more likely it is for America to turn into a Bonapartist style dictatorship.

If I remember said writing, it was more about stopping Virginian succession then domestic dissent.

 

[Space Oddity]

It's worse than that. Hamilton spoke of using the military to put down his domestic political opponents. The more influence Hamilton gets, the more likely it is for America to turn into a Bonapartist style dictatorship.

Yeah, I know. And kept suggesting things like "Let's make the Presidency a dictatorship for life," during the Constitutional Convention. (Where, by the way, he wasn't really that influential.) The historical Hamilton was very much a (somewhat dangerous) asshole who happened to have some good ideas on some subjects.

 

[Caesar Biden]

He doesn't have to become President, he would still have a huge influence over the Federalist Party and U.S Politics as a whole. If he was still alive around 1812, I could see him managing to keep the Federalist Party together, by nipping the Hartford Convention in the bud and through sheer force of will.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

He wasn't born in the colonies, so unless they got rid of that requirement or annexed Nevis, he wouldn't become president anyway.

I just knew that was going to be stated.

This is incorrect. Article Two, Section One, Clause Five specifies: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Hamilton was a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, so he was perfectly eligible to be President.

What Anax stated.

 

[frustrated progressive]

Yeah, I know. And kept suggesting things like "Let's make the Presidency a dictatorship for life," during the Constitutional Convention. (Where, by the way, he wasn't really that influential.) The historical Hamilton was very much a (somewhat dangerous) asshole who happened to have some good ideas on some subjects.

The only way that I understand the Board's Hamilton love is that he is a proto-nerd.

 

[jpj1421]

He doesn't have to become President, he would still have a huge influence over the Federalist Party and U.S Politics as a whole. If he was still alive around 1812, I could see him managing to keep the Federalist Party together, by nipping the Hartford Convention in the bud and through sheer force of will.

Yeah..I think even if he manages to avoid an affair, at best he can hope for is New York Senator after Washington leave office. He'd be an influential figure in the party, keeping them from trying to secede in 1812 and maybe loop back around in 1816 or later. He'd probably be writing a lot of legal defenses for various things and I could see him being a loud abolitionist voice in the 1840's and 1850's before dying. He would never be President, even though he was eligible, because he didn't have the right temperament for it. Hamilton's problem wasn't that he was a closet totalitarian, he was merely a proponent of copying the British model here and probably would have been ok with the British giving America a lot more liberty but staying in the empire, or even that much of an asshole. He just had no filter, with every thought that comes to him coming out his pen onto paper. You need a certain amount of tact for people to put you in charge.

 

[Caesar Biden]

Yeah..I think even if he manages to avoid an affair, at best he can hope for is New York Senator after Washington leave office. He'd be an influential figure in the party, keeping them from trying to secede in 1812 and maybe loop back around in 1816 or later. He'd probably be writing a lot of legal defenses for various things and I could see him being a loud abolitionist voice in the 1840's and 1850's before dying. He would never be President, even though he was eligible, because he didn't have the right temperament for it. Hamilton's problem wasn't that he was a closet totalitarian, he was merely a proponent of copying the British model here and probably would have been ok with the British giving America a lot more liberty but staying in the empire, or even that much of an asshole. He just had no filter, with every thought that comes to him coming out his pen onto paper. You need a certain amount of tact for people to put you in charge.

He doesn't have to hold Elected Office (though he could probably win in New York, depending on the circumstances). He'd be the Party's "Elder Statesman" despite still being fairly young, and he'd have influence over future Federalist Administrations (I find it hard to believe they'd just fall apart like IOTL with a sounder plan and what was essentially an attempt at secession, so they may win.)

 

[Faeelin]

The only way that I understand the Board's Hamilton love is that he is a proto-nerd.

That, and his support of the financial policies that made the US great, his support for abolition (compared to Jefferson), his accurate prediction that the French Revolution would drown Europe in rivers of blood, the fact that he's an immigrant who made it well, as opposed to someone who inherited people...

There's a reason Broadway's running a rap musical about him instead of Jefferson.

You can also criticize Hamilton's suggestion for a lifetime president, but he clearly didn't envision a dictator; the president would have significant restrictions on his power. Elected monarch is IMO more accurate.

 

[Faeelin]

He doesn't have to hold Elected Office (though he could probably win in New York, depending on the circumstances). He'd be the Party's "Elder Statesman" despite still being fairly young, and he'd have influence over future Federalist Administrations (I find it hard to believe they'd just fall apart like IOTL with a sounder plan and what was essentially an attempt at secession, so they may win.)

He'd probably have a resurgence in popularity after the War of 1812, where his ideas would tie into the American System. It's also possible he'd modify some of his unsavory beliefs if he lives longer and sees that his concerns about the viability aren't viable.

 

[ManintheField]

The only way that I understand the Board's Hamilton love is that he is a proto-nerd.

A lot of people (including the people who wrote that blasted play) also like to re-imagine him as a proto-progressive, conveniently forgetting his authoritarian, elitist tendencies.

That, and his support of the financial policies that made the US great, his support for abolition (compared to Jefferson), his accurate prediction that the French Revolution would drown Europe in rivers of blood, the fact that he's an immigrant who made it well, as opposed to someone who inherited people...

There's a reason Broadway's running a rap musical about him instead of Jefferson.

You can also criticize Hamilton's suggestion for a lifetime president, but he clearly didn't envision a dictator; the president would have significant restrictions on his power. Elected monarch is IMO more accurate.

Like this guy, for example!

The reason Broadway is running a musical about him and not Jefferson is idiosyncratic to Broadway, not a result of any deep historical understanding on the part of the writers of the play. Don't mistake cultural significance for historical accuracy.

 

[Faeelin]

A lot of people (including the people who wrote that blasted play) also like to re-imagine him as a proto-progressive, conveniently forgetting his authoritarian, elitist tendencies.

Quick question. The founding father who raped people he owned as property is....

Hamilton doesn't fit into the label autocratic elitist despot. He certainly didn't trust the masses, believing absurd things like the French Revolution would end in tears and with a militarist seizing power, which hahaha was absurd, and favoring radical notions like ensuring the US's creditworthiness, but let's not pretend that Jefferson was a simple yeoman farmer.