Halsey at Midway

I remember watching the movie "Midway", and it said that Admiral Halsey was very sick at the time of the battle of Midway and therefore was unable to be at the battle and had to be replaced by Admiral Spruance.

How would Midway have gone differently if Admiral Halsey wasn't sick and was able to participate in command of the battle?
 
Considering how Bull took the bait at Leyte Gulf (those decoy carriers) and drove his task force through a typhoon, I don't think he would do better than Spruance.
 

Flubber

Banned
I'll begin by pointing out that the movie, as usual with Hollywood shit, plays fast and loose with the facts. Mitchum as Halsey is seen in the hospital recommending Spruance as his replacement to Nimitz leaving the viewer with the understandable, but wholly false, idea that Spruance was in command at Midway from the start. The movie then further reinforces that false idea by giving Glenn Ford as Spruance more screen time than Robert Webber as Frank Jack Fletcher.

In reality, Fletcher was in overall command at Midway until his flagship USS Yorktown was sunk. Because he felt he could not command properly from a cruiser, Fletcher turned command over to Spruance whose TF 16 still had two floating carriers. It was after this hand over that Spruance made an important decision, a decision that Halsey very well might not have made.

After nightfall on the 5th, and after originally steaming west with his carriers lit up to help his returning pilots locate and land which was something he'd do again during the Battle of the Philippine Sea, Spruance turned east and away from the Japanese.

The evening of the 5th and despite losing his carriers, Yamamoto had dispatched two powerful surface forces eastwards. One was to search for the US carriers and the other was to bombard Midway. Yamamoto did order both forces to withdraw westwards a few hours after midnight but there remains a very good chance that one or both might have contacted the US carrier force if that force had continued steaming westward in "pursuit".

And steaming westward in "pursuit" during the night of the 5th is something Halsey might have done.

Another consequence of Halsey being available for the battle is that the US strikes may have been delayed somewhat by desire to fully assemble a strike force.

Fletcher, both a pre-war carrier commander and with wartime experience at Coral Sea, waited until all of Yorktown's strike package was aloft before dispatching them to their target. Spruance, on the other hand, told each squadron launched by Enterprise and Hornet to proceed immediately towards their target without waiting for other squadrons to assemble. The disjointed piecemeal attacks that resulted meant the "miracle" occurred: the suicidal torpedo runs made by VT-6 and VT-8 diverted Japanese attention and pulled the Japanese CAP down to near sea level just about the same time that VB-3, VB-6, and VS-6 with their bomb loads arrived over the Japanese carriers.

Halsey, another pre-war carrier commande, most likely would not have launched individual squadron strikes as Spruance did, instead waiting for both carrier's strike force to be aloft before allowing them to proceed to the target.
 
If Halsey had been at Midway, he would have been overall tactical command of both TF-16 and TF-17, while in the OTL Fletcher had this, as senior to Spruance. As Fletcher allowed Spruance to operate on his own innitiative, Halsey was not the kind of commander to do so, meaning the two TF's would likely operate as a single unit, rather than the more flexible two independant units. This would likely have resulted in a more serious combined strike on the Kido Butai, but also likely an easier Japanese attack on the larger single US group. In the OTL the two TF'system of the USN confused the IJN admirals and made them more cautious, rather than normal, when expecting an enemy in a single force. The point would remain, who would strike fires, which is in favour of the IJN, having longer ranged attack aircraft, if detecting the opposing force first.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Some times the breaks just go your way.

It would hard for the battle to go much better for the USA with any commander, so we can largely ignore this possibility. Perhaps butterflies means the Japanese don't damage any carrier or the submarine does not find it heading home. This is by far the least likely outcome.

The decision made by USA commanders were sound, and perhaps Halsey makes the same ones. Or he makes different once with similar outcomes. Second least likely.

Now to the probable. Halsey was as aggressive as any commander we had, so he likely makes more aggressive decisions. He will not lose surprise before the Japanese attack Midway, at least until they send planes that way. But he may do some of the following.

1) There was a false report of sightings before the real sighting. He may well move towards this report. Or he may just have his ships a few 10's of miles away from OTL for any number of smaller reasons such as when he launches planes. The butterfly from this is the Japanese likely spot the USA fleet hours earlier. So likely we don't hit the carriers with planes refueling and the Japanese launch a half attack much earlier in the day. Even their very weak one carrier attack later in the day did significant damage to the USA.

2) Other poster point of on full strike is valid. Again, luck does not go USA way.

3) Again, if Halsey wins carrier battle, he likely pursues west risking surface battle at night.

So what is likely result. Japan had terrible damage control. If we get the full strike finding the carriers, then the Japanese likely lose 1-2 carriers. The USA will lose whichever carriers the Japanese find. Japan will the send on Midway planes on second half strike. It is very variable on planes finding carriers and how much damage a single hit does. But if I had to bet, I would go with 2 Japanese and 3 American carriers lost. Island defense holds, and after initial failure, Japan retreats since the main objective is done. Marines are played up as heroes and it is months later before public learns about carrier losses. Small side chance Torch is delayed due to naval assets sent to Pacific. Japan finishes bases in Solomon Islands. War picks up again in early 1943 with CP push.

I am not saying Halsey was bad, this is just butterfly working of a perfect day IOTL. If you just rolled 99 on the percentile dice, you never take a reroll to see if you can get 00. It is sort of the reverse of Hitler in command in 1942 where almost any random general does better that year.



I'll begin by pointing out that the movie, as usual with Hollywood shit, plays fast and loose with the facts. Mitchum as Halsey is seen in the hospital recommending Spruance as his replacement to Nimitz leaving the viewer with the understandable, but wholly false, idea that Spruance was in command at Midway from the start. The movie then further reinforces that false idea by giving Glenn Ford as Spruance more screen time than Robert Webber as Frank Jack Fletcher.

The movie has it right. In the hospital, it does show Halsey recommending Spruance for command of his carriers. But later when Nimitz talks to him to give him the command (seems like scene walking on carrier talking about spark plugs), the movie has Nimitz say that Fletcher will be in overall command once they link up.

The movie does chose to glorify Spruance more by giving him Heston (fictional character) as his Air commander along with the subplot about the internment camps. It is the way Heston is used to tie the various scenes together that makes Spruance seems more important.
 
Not only Battle of Midway portrays Spruance as the leader, but so does Herman Wouks War and remembrance with the following quote "Even though he will continue on commanding bigger fleets and getting other vicotories, he will go down in history as Spruance of Midway". And Wouk gets most of the facts straight in the rest of the books
 
Not only Battle of Midway portrays Spruance as the leader, but so does Herman Wouks War and remembrance with the following quote "Even though he will continue on commanding bigger fleets and getting other vicotories, he will go down in history as Spruance of Midway". And Wouk gets most of the facts straight in the rest of the books

In addition to Wouk Samuel Elliot Morison calls him Spruance of Midway. Why?
1. As soon as the Carriers were sighted he launched the all out attack by both of his carriers. The Enterprise dive bombers sank Akagi and Kaga. This was in accordance with Nimitz’s battle plan and Fletcher concurred but Spruance gave the order before he heard from Fletcher.
2. After Yorktown was disabled Fletcher released Spruance to act independently. He made the decision to retreat east during the night. Had he continued west he would have encountered powerful Japanese surface forces.
3. He overruled his chief of staff, Browning, and ordered the June 7 strike to carry 500 rather than 1,000 pound bombs. Had they gone with the larger bombs they would not have made it back.
4. He turned on the task force lights to guide the bombers home despite the submarine risk.
I think Fletcher was the most underappreciated Admiral in the war. Ernie King did not like him and buried him.
As to Halsey at Midway the question will always be would he have continued east and blundered into Kondo’s surface fleet? He took the carrier bait at Leyte Gulf. In a very different situation in June 1942 I believe he would have been more cautious.
 
The movie does chose to glorify Spruance more by giving him Heston (fictional character) as his Air commander along with the subplot about the internment camps. It is the way Heston is used to tie the various scenes together that makes Spruance seems more important.
which annoyed me, because, IIRC, there were no internment camps in Hawaii; they were all in CA...
 

BlondieBC

Banned
which annoyed me, because, IIRC, there were no internment camps in Hawaii; they were all in CA...

Actually, I though they were all east of the Rockies. The first house I lived in was a barrack for Japanese in one of the camps. And it seems like the Japanese were not removed in mass from Hawaii, the labor was needed for the war.
 
which annoyed me, because, IIRC, there were no internment camps in Hawaii; they were all in CA...

There were 5 interment camps in the Islands. Run by the Army, I think. Some of the internees were transferred to mainland camps, not all which were in Cali. They were also in Texas, Idaho, and maybe a few other states.
 

Flubber

Banned
The movie has it right.

The movie gives the wrong impression and Nimitz' concerns about seniority of Fletcher over Spruance is tucked away in the scene in which he gives Spruance the famous "calculated risk" orders.

What do you think the average viewer is going to take away from Fonda's soliloquy? The fact that Nimitz is giving Spruance the leeway to gamble or the fact that Fletcher will be in overall command once the Yorktown completes her repairs and rendezvous with other carriers?

The movie does chose to glorify Spruance more by giving him Heston...
Heston's character works for Fletcher. According to his memoirs, Heston and Webber even discussed how Webber should portray Fletcher. Even the Wiki page got that right.
 
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