Haiti and Cuba annex by the US before WW1?

I mean after having defeated the Spanish for Cuba in the early 1900s is it any way possible with a P.O.D. so that by 2010 Cuba and Haiti are US States?
 

Eurofed

Banned
I mean after having defeated the Spanish for Cuba in the early 1900s is it any way possible with a P.O.D. so that by 2010 Cuba and Haiti are US States?

As it concerns Cuba, this is quite easy to accomplish. You must weaken the anti-Imperialists in the 1898 US Congress somewhat, so that the Teller Amendment never gets approved. As it concerns Haiti itself, this is much more iddifuclt, since there would be huge racial and economic qualms about annexing a place chock-full with dirt-poor blacks, already headed to become the basket case of the Western Hemisphere. However, with a little butterfly in the Senate, you can easily have the Dominican Republic annexed in 1870 (the annexation treaty failed in the Senate by one vote), which was (and is) in considerably better socio-economic shape (and is rather less "black"). This gives America a stake into Hispaniola.

If US St. Domingo and Cuba lead to greater US investment into the Caribbean, including Haiti itself, which ameliorates the socio-economic shape of the country substantially, you may have an America that becomes sympathetic to Haiti statehood or association status after the end of segregation (but not earlier). Such an America would almost surely go for the annexation of Panama, too, when it builds the Canal, and perhaps Nicaragua later.
 
As it concerns Cuba, this is quite easy to accomplish. You must weaken the anti-Imperialists in the 1898 US Congress somewhat, so that the Teller Amendment never gets approved. As it concerns Haiti itself, this is much more iddifuclt, since there would be huge racial and economic qualms about annexing a place chock-full with dirt-poor blacks, already headed to become the basket case of the Western Hemisphere. However, with a little butterfly in the Senate, you can easily have the Dominican Republic annexed in 1870 (the annexation treaty failed in the Senate by one vote), which was (and is) in considerably better socio-economic shape (and is rather less "black"). This gives America a stake into Hispaniola.

If US St. Domingo and Cuba lead to greater US investment into the Caribbean, including Haiti itself, which ameliorates the socio-economic shape of the country substantially, you may have an America that becomes sympathetic to Haiti statehood or association status after the end of segregation (but not earlier). Such an America would almost surely go for the annexation of Panama, too, when it builds the Canal, and perhaps Nicaragua later.

Intriguing - you could have a situation where the USA owns Cuba, Hispaniola and Puerto Rico - every big island EXCEPT JAMAICA

Thus, among the Jamaican revolutionaries you would have those campaigning for "liberation" from Britain, not to become independent but to become a state of the US!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Typo

Banned
I don't think the US were all that eager to grant statehood to people who arn't white
 

Eurofed

Banned
Intriguing - you could have a situation where the USA owns Cuba, Hispaniola and Puerto Rico - every big island EXCEPT JAMAICA

Thus, among the Jamaican revolutionaries you would have those campaigning for "liberation" from Britain, not to become independent but to become a state of the US!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I suppose this is a distinct possibility, even if I lack real knowledge about the domestic policies of Jamaica. However, about ripples from US expansion and larger investment in the Caribbean, I also remark that this could easily lead to Guyana statehood or association status, given the large amount of people that have dual US-Guyana citizenship or emigrated to the USA, in comparison to the total size of the country's population.
 

Eurofed

Banned
I don't think the US were all that eager to grant statehood to people who arn't white

Not until the end of segregation, anyway. But here the trick would be to bring a somewhat better shape Haiti into some kind of Puerto Rico-like associated status, leaving statehood for the late 20th century. As it concerns Cuba and the Dominican Republic, their annexation was openly and most seriously discussed in the late 19th century, so they were deemed "white" enough. Again, they could even become associated states in the immediate, and US states later.
 
I don't think the US were all that eager to grant statehood to people who arn't white


This is a good point. At the start of the 20th Century, the United States isn't gonna want to annex an island which has a predominate black population. And aside from the causual racism at the time, I'm not sure what the advantage for American would be to hold that territory. Cuba can be argued to be strategic, not to mention producers of sugar and tobacco. What did Haiti have to offer at the time?
 

The Vulture

Banned
Haiti could have some serious industries were it a state- tourism, gambling, sugarcane, tobacco, and fruit come to mind.
 
For Cuba, depends on how widely you define "white". Haiti, with its HUGE African population, would require serious "ethic cleansing" to make sufficiently "white". :(

I am sure that the dixiecrats would in their logic find a way to make Haiti a part of the US if not at least a US Protrectorate.

/Fred
 

mowque

Banned
Well, we pretty much controlled Haiti for a long time in OTL (1915-1934). But the financial /moral costs soon rose to a very high level. Why would America want a place like Haiti?
 
Intriguing - you could have a situation where the USA owns Cuba, Hispaniola and Puerto Rico - every big island EXCEPT JAMAICA

Thus, among the Jamaican revolutionaries you would have those campaigning for "liberation" from Britain, not to become independent but to become a state of the US!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Or perhaps it leads to Jamaica and the other British territories in the Carribbean (Turks and Caicos, Bermuda, Belize, The Bahamas, Trinidad and Tobago) being integrated into Canada.

I do see the point people are making about not granting statehood to a few places for a while. I can see them becoming protectorates in the late 19th/early 20th Centuries, which they stay through the 1900s. In WWII, America draws heavily on these people to help fight the war, and they do so with distinction. After the war, many whites fan out across the Carribbean territories, and statehood comes rapidly. Cuba becomes a US state at the same time as Hawaii and Alaska, in 1959. Panama follows in 1962, The Domincan Republic and Haiti in 1965 and Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands in 1970. With the Americans integrating their territories into the US itself, the other islands of the Carribbean also agitate for independence from Britain. The Bahamas, Jamaica, Belize and the others are integrated into Canada in the 1950s and 1960s.

The real big changes here could go to the territories the US has in the Pacific, the Marianas and the Phillippines. I can't see the Phillippines becoming a US state (too large and too poor), but the Marianas I can see it.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Or perhaps it leads to Jamaica and the other British territories in the Carribbean (Turks and Caicos, Bermuda, Belize, The Bahamas, Trinidad and Tobago) being integrated into Canada.

I do see the point people are making about not granting statehood to a few places for a while. I can see them becoming protectorates in the late 19th/early 20th Centuries, which they stay through the 1900s. In WWII, America draws heavily on these people to help fight the war, and they do so with distinction. After the war, many whites fan out across the Carribbean territories, and statehood comes rapidly. Cuba becomes a US state at the same time as Hawaii and Alaska, in 1959. Panama follows in 1962, The Domincan Republic and Haiti in 1965 and Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands in 1970. With the Americans integrating their territories into the US itself, the other islands of the Carribbean also agitate for independence from Britain. The Bahamas, Jamaica, Belize and the others are integrated into Canada in the 1950s and 1960s.

The real big changes here could go to the territories the US has in the Pacific, the Marianas and the Phillippines. I can't see the Phillippines becoming a US state (too large and too poor), but the Marianas I can see it.

I fully agree, except in that I rather see Haiti getting statehood somewhat later than the Dominican Republic, since even with better US investment, it is going to be the poorest US territory in the Caribbean. Say in the mid-late 1970s.

As it concerns the Northern Marianas, they could either become merged with Guam, Palau, American Samoa, the Marshall Islands, and the Federated States of Micronesia, to make a population comparable to Wyoming, and a size comparable ro Rhode Island. Or all of the baove could be merged with the Hawaii (the so-called "Greater Hawaii" concept).

As it concerns the Philippines, they could get a chance if things turn differently in the 1930s, the Filipino exports and immigrants are not made subject to tariffs and quotas, and the US draft large amounts of Filipino soldiers in WWII. Large amounts of pro-US veterans could make a strong anti-independence constituency, as it would the relatives of the immigrants in the US, giving stability to the Commonwealth deal. No tariff to the Filipino exports and greater US investment from the continuation of the Commonwealth would develop the country, strenghtening the political links with the US, reducing demogtaphic growth, and making its statehood more plausible, as it happened with Puerto Rico. However, I wholly agree that if the Philippines get statehood, it shall never be as one state. At the very least, they get split in 2-3 states, Luzon, Mindanao, and the other isles. Say that Philipino statehood come in the mid-late 1970s, alongside Haiti, or in the 1980s.
 
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