Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by LeinadB93, Jul 30, 2017.
OH GAWD THERE'S HOPE. WELCOME BACK FELLA @LeinadB93!!!!
Awh thanks. It's nice to know you missed the series, and I'm glad there are still some people interested in it!!
I do intend to respond to everyone's questions in due course, but got a bit caught up today with a write up for something I've been playing with for a while. Hopefully I'll be a bit more frequent moving forward
Credit to @TPL99 for the list of First Ministers, and helping me flesh out the backstory. Here's a look at TTL's Largest Colony:
The Viceroyalty of Benguela, also known as Brazilian Africa, is an autonomous unincorporated territory of the Empire of Brazil located in south-central Africa, approximately 6,500 km east of São Paulo. Benguela is bordered by the Co-operative Republic of Angola to the north, the State of Zambia and the Commonwealth of Zimbabwe Rhodesia to the east, the United Provinces of the Cape to the south, and the Atlantic Ocean to the west. Ranked separately, Benguela is the twelfth-largest African country by area, and the twenty-second most populous. The capital and most populous city is São Felipe. The territory's total population is approximately 17.3 million. Portuguese and Umbundu are the official languages, though Umbundu predominates.
Although predominantly inhabited by the nomadic Khoi and San people since the Paleolithic Era, what is now Benguela was moulded by Portuguese and later Brazilian colonisation. Portuguese explorers first reached the area in 1484, establishing coastal settlements and trading posts, including the now capital São Felipe de Benguela. For over two hundred years the colony traded in Angolan slaves for the Brazilian plantations, and the Atlantic slave trade tied the colony closely to Portuguese Brazil. Local slave dealers provided a large number of slaves for the Portuguese Empire, usually in exchange for manufactured goods from Europe. During the Portuguese Restoration War, the Dutch West India Company seized control of Luanada and the northern regions of the colony, and despite repeated attempts by Portugal the colony would remain in Dutch hands until the 20th century. By the early 17th century, Portugal had gained control of the coast through a series of treaties and wars, but control over the country's vast interior was minimal.
The independence of Brazil in the 1820s had profound impacts upon the Portuguese colony of West Africa, which erupted into revolt against the Portuguese authorities, who sought to reduce and even abolish the slave trade, in support of the new Brazilian Empire. In 1826, Portugal begrudgingly ceded their West Africa forts and settlements to Brazil in exchange for perpetual trading rights in their ports. In the mid-19th century there were a series of renewed expeditions into the Benguelan hinterland, and settlers slowly began to establish themselves in the hinterland. The mixed heritage of the settlers from Brazil meant that they were more cautiously welcomed than white Europeans, and many mixed communities emerged between the immigrant Pardo Brazilians and the native Bantu peoples. As of the 2010 census nearly 50% of the Benguelan population is of mixed/pardo heritage. Conferences and treaties throughout the late-20th century delineated Brazilian claims in Africa, establishing borders between Dutch Angola, British Zambia and Rhodesia, and German South West Africa. During the period of Brazilian direct colonial rule, cities, towns and trading posts were founded, railways were opened, ports were built, and a distinctive creole culture that combined indigenous African, Brazilian and European elements was developed, blending western imports with the deeply traditional tribal heritage.
During the First World War, forces in the neighbouring German colony of South West Africa launched several probing invasions into the Brazilian colony prior to Brazil's official declaration of war (March 1917). When the British invaded the colony in 1915 from the south, Brazilian forces launched a joint invasion from the north and both countries jointly occupied the colony. At the end of the war, with the signing of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, the northern half of the colony, known as German Kavango, was ceded to the Empire of Brazil and annexed into the Brazilian colonial possessions in Africa. The election of Brazil's first socialist government in 1929 saw the outlawing of the forced labour system in Benguela, although the plantation based economy continued, and the emergence of a major mining sector. Improved railway links between the coast and the interior, including the newly annexed Kavango territory, served to link the disparate regions of the colony together.
The immediate period following the Second World War saw the colony began the transition to autonomy in 1947, with the granting of indirect home rule. However, the establishment of a fully autonomous viceroyalty would not occur until 1987 due to the Imperial Congress being unable to approve a local constitution. Benguelans have been citizens of Brazil since 1919, and enjoy freedom of movement between the territory and metropolitan Brazil, however Benguela's future political status has consistently been a matter of significant debate, with some seeking full integration and others independence as a sovereign state. Benguela has vast mineral and petroleum reserves, and its economy is among the fastest-growing in the world largely due to the presence of Brazil's state run industries. A highly multi-ethnic country, Benguela's 17.3 million people span tribal groups, customs, and traditions, and Benguelan culture reflects centuries of Portuguese and Brazilian influence, in the use of the Portuguese language and of the predominance of the Catholic Church.
First Ministers of the Viceroyalty of Benguela (1987–)
11. 1987–1996 Jonas Savimbi (Democratic majority, then Democratic minority)
12. 1996–2008 Samuel Nujoma (SDF–Benguelese majority coalition)
13. 2008–2016 Alberto Ngalanela (Grupo Popular–Liberal majority coalition)
14. 2016–2021 Agostinho Ndjaka (SDF–Benguelese–Communist majority coalition)
ITS ALIVE, ITS ALIVE !!!!!!!
Damn, it's back!
I'm not too sure how a fully autonomous viceroyalty with its own parliament could be described as an unincorporated territory on the wikibox, however.
Great to have you back.
Any chance we could see something more on TTL's Second World War equivalent in Europe?
The last colony? It’s weird to describe it like that when France has its oversea, japan has Taiwan, and well, the British empire still has places like Sierra Leone or Fiji or Singapore.
Kinda weird Ovimbundu would be widely spoken when nearly 70% of the population is Pardo or of european descent, historically irl most mixed race African quickly assimilated with the colonising culture, and Portuguese angola was no exception. The mixed race population that doesn’t come from Brazil would very likely identify more with the Brazilian culture and forget its African part, at least over a generation or two. I doubt that a situation like Paraguay could arise, mostly because the Brazilian colonial administration would still likely consider the natives as culturally inferior, and being a colony it wouldn’t have the possibility to have a coherent unified education policy promoting Ovimbundu. Also Benguela would be much more ethnicall divided than Paraguay.
Still awesome update. Glad to see you’re back!
Benguela ITTL is very similar to Puerto Rico OTL - an internally self-governing state that is a territory of a larger power (Brazil/USA) but is not actually part of that larger power. Benguela is Brazilian territory, and its citizens are Brazilian citizens, but it is not part of Brazilian territory - many of Brazil's laws only apply to Benguela if it is explicitly mentioned, and its citizens cannot vote in Brazilian federal elections. Much like Puerto Ricans are US citizens, but cannot vote in US elections.
So Benguela is unincorporated because it has a separate legal status in Brazilian/international law compared to a state in metropolitan Brazil - which can vote in federal elections and is an integrated part of the Brazilian state.
Hope that clarifies
Sure thing! Is there anything in particular?
I suppose it might be better described as "The Largest Colony". The extent to which Overseas France, Japanese Taiwan, the European Cities in China, and the British overseas possessions are still seen as "colonies" varies from state to state. The UN list of Non-Self-Governing Territories is probably a lot smaller ITTL, and in fact may be non-existent at this point...
Overseas France are all departments, regions or collectivites - with full voting in French election. So not colonies.
Taiwan and Sakhalin are fully integrated with Japan, and like the other islands are divided into prefectures. Both have full voting in Japanese elections, although Taiwan has a strong secessionist movement. So not colonies.
Overseas Portugal (Cape Verde, Sao Tome & Principe, Macau) are considered the same as Madeira and the Azores. So not colonies.
Sierra Leone, Singapore and Fiji are integrated dominions of the United Empire, with full self-government like Canada or Australia.
My thinking is that Umbundu continues to be spoken across much of the hinterland and inland regions, whilst Portuguese predominates along the coast. You are correct that Brazil would most likely promote Portuguese as the language of education and government, particuarly with emerging creole population, so potentially Umbundu would have declined significantly by the mid-20th century. However, with the language's heartlands surviving with "less" colonial influence into the 1940s, and the subsequent home rule, I think we could see a renaissance of the language as a second language - which could supplant Portuguese in the rural interior of the country, whilst Portuguese remains the predominant first language and the language of government, trade, education etc.
So I was wondering if you had anything on either Italy or Germany from their OTL unifications (whatever the equivalent is in TTL) up to the end of the Second World War...
Also (and I hate to keep on making demands like this) but I'd love to see something about the status of countries in East Asia apart from China. You've hinted at it in your updates on China and I'd love to hear more about what's going on in Manchuria, Korea, Taiwan etc...
Leinad still hasn't answered the most important question: is it Derry or Londonderry?
Unfortunately the Romanovs are still killed by Soviets - and this is a big part of why Britain becomes so fervently anti-Communist is the interwar period. Their deaths, plus the Alaskan Uprising, leads to all Communist organisation being banned in the Empire.
One idea I had played with was that Anastasia is somehow separated from her parents and siblings, and ends up in Crimea with her grandmother - they both get rescued by the British and resettle in Alaska. Where Anastasia marries the heir the Prince of Alaska... But I’m not sure whether to follow it through.
My thoughts exactly. Presidential republics in the mood of OTL USA are pretty rare ITTL, so very few states have an all powerful president. Most have semi-presidential or parliamentary systems, to like OTL South Africa - with executive president responsible to the legislature.
Indeed but that has a separate function to what I was thinking.
Hmm, could be an historic/secondary title used for the Presidents role in delivering pardons etc.
Thanks I’m glad you like them!!
I’d like to think so
Perhaps Anastasia's condition worsens to the point where the family decides that, rather than keep her with them, she'd join the other refugee Romanovs in hopes of finding someone to help her now that they didn't have anyone - so, just like the others, she ends up in Crimea, and from there, go to Britain where the treatment there stabilizes her. Maybe after recovering, she even ends up meeting her relative, George Mikhailovich, Count Brasov, in Harrow and their interactions just have the slightest butterfly effect to prevent him from suffering the same death he had OTL.
it lives! IT LIVES! *putting on my best Frankenstein accent*
Good to see you back lei!
The NHS System is administered at the Imperial level by the Department of Health, which says basic standards and guidelines. But each dominion has it's own branch of the NHS - NHS England, NHS Canada, NHS Australia etc. - which handles local health matters and is repsonsible to the dominion government. Dominions will allocate funding, and are expected to meet the minimum care standards and requirements set down by London, but can diverge somewhat on treatment availability, waiting times etc.
As a teacher myself, the education system is something I've given a lot of thought to.
Here's where it stands at present.
Before 1976 the provision of education is very much in the hands of the dominions. But along comes Pierre Trudeau who decides to centralise things abit, and sets up the Department for Education with a focus on setting minimum standards.
At the moment my idea for ages (using British naming):
1-4 yo - not compulsory, optional "Early Years/Nursery"
4-5 yo - "Reception"
5-7 yo - "Infants"
5-6 - Year 1/Kindergarten
6-7 - Year 2/1st Grade
7-11 yo - "Primary"
7-8 - Year 3/2nd Grade
8-9 - Year 4/3rd Grade
9-10 - Year 5/4th Grade
10-11 - Year 6/5th Grade
11-14 yo - "Middle School" [Often merged with High School]
11-12 - Year 7/6th Grade
12-13 - Year 8/7th Grade
13-14 - Year 9/8th Grade
14-18 yo - "High School/Sixth Form" [Often merged with Middle School]
14-15 - Year 10/9th Grade
15-16 - Year 11/10th Grade
16-17 - Year 12/11th Grade
17-18 - Year 13/12th Grade
Some basic points:
Education is compulsory until 18. You sit three sets of exams, one at the end of "Primary", the other at the end of Year 11/10th Grade and the other at the end of Year 13/12th Grade.
You don't graduate until Year 13/12th Grade.
The curriculum is meant to be balanced across all subjects, so everyone does a bit of Maths, English, Science, History, Art, Music, Geography, Politics etc. You can specialise a bit in High School but it is expected that everyone knows a bit about everything.
Everyone studies a language that isn't their own i.e. French, Dutch, Gaelic, Spanish or Russian. These are chosen at the discretion of the dominion government.
After graduation you go onto University/College or apprenticeships - my thinking here is that unis offer degrees whilst colleges are more vocational/trade qualifications
I just noticed that Belize is a part of Mexico. How did that happen?
Didn't you say in a post that there's compulsory national service at 18 for 2 years?
I'm afraid pop culture isn't my area of expertise... Sorry
I think your ideas are pretty accurate. In North America, Australia and West Australia there is a trend towards big cars, whereas the Home Islands, the Caribbean, New Zealand and the smaller island dominions tend towards smaller cars with more responsive handling. Newfoundland and New England (and indeed New York and other major cities in NA) would probably see a trend towards smaller cars as well.
I'd assume that most middle-class families in Britain ITTL would have two cars - a smaller city car and a larger long distance one. There's a real push towards eco-friendly models, more so than OTL, so hybrid and electric vehicles are much more common.
Hope that makes sense
Similar laws to OTL Canada, with certain areas licensed for hunting activities with restrictions on the number of animals allowed to be hunted in a given year. Obviously no hunting of endangered animals. With firearm laws the same as OTL UK hunting is less mainstream. Fox hunting is definitely banned.
I've got a few bits on pieces on both those areas in the works. I have a tendency to get sidetracked on a small area of the world when something catches my interest!!
To avoid controversy the city is known as Derry whilst the country is Londonderry. However Protestants generally reverse the order. It's a goodnatured debate ITTL amongst residents of the city.
Sounds like an interesting divergence - consider it canon
British Honduras had first been settled in the 1660s, on territory disputed between Spain and England. When Mexico gained its independence the dispute continued with Britain, but the collapse of the First Mexican Empire, and the separation of Yucatan and Central America meant the fledgling colony survived. After the Mexican War, the British recognised Mexican suzerainty over the territory (and the Mosquito Coast) but was deliberately vague about what that meant. The territory was de facto a British colony for the next century.
In the 1960s/70s, with the beginning of British decolonisation, Belize and the Mosquito Coast were both integrated into the Third Mexican Empire after negotiations between Mexico, Britain and their respective local governments. Both states retain a Westminster-style government, with a Legislative Assembly and an elected Premier responsible to the Assembly. English is the official language of both states, and both are observer members at the Commonwealth of Nations. The Mosquito Coast retain their local King as head of state, whilst Belize recognises Elizabeth II as Queen of Belize, but all reserve political power is reserved to the resident Governor.
Hope that makes sense
Indeed I did (I've highlighted the key bit relevant to education):
Indeed, German history is much as OTL prior to the end of the Second World War. A weaker Soviet Union due to the losses sustained against Kuomintang China in the Far Eastern Front meant that all of Germany ended up under Allied rule, and then partitioned into the six successor states.
Not as yet, other than the East Asian War and the Atomic bombings. I did a piece on the American Theatre of the First World War back before I started the thread - which I'll hopefully redo at some point.
As @Indicus rightly says, this is (by design) a convergent TL. I think it's more fun to explore a world that is both recognisable, but also radically different to OTL.
Indicus is again correct about my thoughts regarding France - the Revolution was in many ways inevitable, although the dates and events are probably different ITTL, regardless of the status of French Louisiana. The continued existence of a vast French colony probably allowed France to sent a few radicals overseas. And I imagine a fair few nobles and aristocrats escaped the chaos and fled to America and Louisiana, only to return after Napoleon rose to power and established the Empire.
There was even a plan to smuggle the Dauphin to Louisiana, which failed. But that's a very common trope of TTL's Alternate History - "What if the Dauphin established a Kingdom-in-Exile in French Louisiana?".
All in good time
I think that you are correct looking at it from OTL, but remember ITTL they don't have the benefit of having Axis Japan as a comparison. Most people would accept that the bombings were necessary to bring about a swift end to the war with minimal loss of life on all sides, but some think that the atomic bombings were morally unjustifiable.
Separate names with a comma.