Hail, Britannia

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by LeinadB93, Jul 30, 2017.

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  1. Threadmarks: New England Gaelic

    LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    On a bit of a New England binge at the moment. Who knows what else might be coming :p

    Anyway, this looks at one of the more interesting divergences from OTL - that of a more linguistically diverse Maritimes region, as well as surviving North American dialects of Gaelic.

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    New England Gaelic (Gaelic: A' Ghàidhlig Sasainn Nuadh), known in New England English as often simply Gaelic, refers to the dialects of Scottish Gaelic spoken by people in Northeast New England who have their origins in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. While there have been many different regional dialects of Gaelic that have been spoken in communities across British America, the northeast New England provinces are the main area in North America where Gaelic continues to be spoken as a community language, especially in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. All of these dialects had their origins in the Scottish Highlands, although some have become effectively dormant since the time of emigration. Scottish Gaels began to settle in Nova Scotia from 1773, in the aftermath of the Highland Clearances, and continued throughout the 19th century. Gaelic has been spoken in New England for nearly 250 years, and during the early 1900s, the Gaelic language was recognised as an official language of the country, and has been taught as a second language in many parts of New England.

    The dialects of Gaelic spoken in the New England provinces are similar to the dialects of the Irish language spoken in neighbouring Newfoundland, although they are descended from different branches of the Goidelic languages. The Gaelic dialects spoken in West Connecticut and Sciotoshire, both of which are states of the Confederation of the Ohio Country, are closely related to New England Gaelic, sharing a common origin amongst Scottish exiles from the Highland Clearances.

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    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  2. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby!

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    Oh yes, definitely ^^
    That's a fairly healthy Gaelic there, I'll say
     
  3. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    :)

    Although I just realised you suggested he lead the Alabama state Progressive party - which is an interesting prospect. So many possibilities...

    Indeed :D The numbers may be a bit exaggerated, but they are based on self-identification about whether you can speak it well.
     
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  4. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby!

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    Funny enough, in Wales it's the opposite, we tend to underestimate our ability to speak it, and so the statistics turn out looking worse than the reality is

    Hopefully it'll look better there than in OTL ^^

    For a major improvement, I would say 35-40, but that's on the high end so I'll leave it up to you
     
  5. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    Well now I want to do a wikibox for the Welsh language :p

    Hmm... I'd say 35% might be the maximum I'd be willing to go. But what really interests me is that Patagonia is partly Welsh speaking... What percentage of Patagonians speak Welsh as their first language do you think?

    I wonder if Welsh ITTL might be classified into two distinct dialects (or dialect clusters) - Cambrian Welsh in Wales and Patagonian Welsh in Patagonia.
     
  6. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby!

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    I think I generally set it up so that around 40% of Patagonians spoke Welsh, 40% Spanish and 10% other

    Could you raise it to 40% in Wales itself due to Patagonian cultural output or something?
     
  7. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Wikipedia puts it at between 1,500 and 5,000 IOTL. That's quite a spread, but still not all that much. Even if you triple or quadruple the higher figure, that's still only a five digit number.
     
  8. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby!

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    Yeah, Patagonia in ATL is different. There's more of a migration and a population boom in the 1900s

    The UE overall preferred English speakers when they ruled the place but they tolerated Welsh speakers because they were still "British" unlike the Spanish speakers and that allowed the Welsh to gain a form of prestige that led a chunk of Spanish speakers to switch to Welsh

    Patagonia itself, I see as relatively low populated until the 80s or so when it started to switch to a tertiary economy as well as seriously expand its oil industry, leading to wealth and immigration

    By that point, the place was set in the whole "two languages, one country" thing and immigrants were overall pressured to speak the community language, so there's kind of a geographic language division there

    Nevertheless, every Patagonian child learns English, Welsh and Spanish at school, order depending on which community you're from
     
  9. Threadmarks: Prime Ministers of California

    LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    A tad more housekeeping that shows a slightly amended list of Californian Prime Ministers, with the election and referendums navbox:

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    Prime Ministers of the Kingdom of the Californias (1847–) [1]
    11. 1847–1860 José Castro† (Independent)
    12. 1860–1867 Juan Alvarado Vallejo (Independent)
    13. 1867–1874 Mariano Guadalupe Vallejo (Independent)
    14. 1874–1879 John Frémont (Independent)
    15. 1879–1883 Romualdo Pacheco (Democratic Movement)
    16. 1883–1886 Cristobal Aguilar† (Democratic Movement)
    17. 1886–1891 Juan Carrillo (Democratic Movement)
    18. 1891–1898 Jorge Fernandez (People's) [2]
    19. 1898–1907 Antonio Caminetti (Congress for Renewal)
    10. 1907–1914 Hiram Juánez (People's) (1st) [3]
    11. 1914–1922 Silvestre Dickerson (Congress for Renewal) [4]
    12. 1922–1930 Octaviano Larrazolo† (National Liberal)
    12. 1930–1936 Hiram Juánez (National Liberal) (2nd)
    13. 1936–1943 Angelo Rossi (National Liberal)
    14. 1943–1948 Robert Montoya (United Left) [2]
    15. 1948–1956 Braulio Maldonado (United Left)
    16. 1956–1959 Guille Knowland (National Liberal) [5]
    17. 1959–1967 Patricio Marron (National Liberal) [6]
    18. 1967–1972 Ricardo Nixon (National Liberal) [7]
    19. 1972–1981 Eduardo Roybal (United Left)
    20. 1981–1989 Matheo Martínez (National Liberal)
    21. 1989–1993 Ron Dellums (United Left) (1st)
    22. 1993–1997 Esteban Torres (National Liberal)
    21. 1997–2005 Ron Dellums (United Left) (2nd)
    23. 2005–2013 Antonio Villaraigosa (United Left)
    24. 2013–2021 Jon Huntsman (National Liberal)

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    [1] - Official title is the “President of the Government”. Before the 1879 Constitution the Prime Ministers were appointed by the Monarch independent of the Cortes Generales and were the head of the Army, effectively governing California as a military junta and semi-constitutional monarchy. The 1879 Constitution, created by King Ramón II, John Frémont, and Romualdo Pacheco, created a Westminster-style system of government and removed the role of the Military and minimised that of the Monarch.
    [2] - Fictional Individuals
    [3] - OTL Hiram Johnson
    [4] - OTL Denver S. Dickerson
    [5] - OTL William Knowland
    [6] - OTL Pat Brown / Edmund Brown Sr.
    [7] - OTL Richard Nixon​
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  10. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    Exactly :D

    So in effect Patagonia is the Belgium of Latin America ITTL - very divided along linguistic lines, with immigrants generally adopting the major language of the local population. I'd imagined that the north and Pacific coast would be very much Spanish-speaking, whilst the south and Atlantic coast are majority Welsh-speaking. I'd guess that English would be the most widely taught second-language, with the other two trading first and third place in the curriculum depending on the location.
     
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  11. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Those referenda. They intrigue me. Please, tell me more.
     
  12. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    :) California ITTL is very democratic (at least post-1879).

    1879 - Constitution: voters are asked to approve the new constitution (Approved). This transforms the country from a semi-absolute "presidential" monarchy to a constitutional one. It also established the supremacy of the legislature, reducing the king's powers to near non-existent, and established the autonomous regions.

    1932 - Statute of Westminster: asked to approve the adoption of the Statute of Westminster (Approved). The Statute ITTL effectively terminated the British protectorate over California (and Texas) whilst allowing it to remain an "autonomous community within the British Empire". Effectively an analogue of the 1926 Balfour Declaration as well.

    1934 - Baja Integration: asked to approve the annexation of Baja as the country's eleventh region (Approved). The territory had been seized from Mexico after the First World War. The vote also covered some border adjustments with Cabazona.

    1949 - Commonwealth Membership: asked whether California should remain a member of the Common Travel Area and the Commonwealth of Nations (Approved).

    1979 - Voting System: asked whether to change from FPTP and which voting system they preferred (Approved - Adopted Proportional Representation).

    2010 - Latin America: voters were asked whether California should begin negotiations to join the Union of Latin American Nations (Rejected).

    2011 - Royal Succession: asked to approve the adoption of absolute primogeniture for the future succession to the throne (Approved). This was in anticipation of the birth of the reigning king and queen's first child - turned out to be a boy anyway.
     
  13. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Well, as long as they are not at "abolish taxes, but massively increase public spending" levels. :biggrin:
     
  14. Threadmarks: Grand Duchy of Holstein (1864-1918); Schleswig War; Danevirke War

    LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    And now for something completely different. An idea I've been playing with for a long time, which explains how Denmark got it's southern border ITTL, whilst also exploring some small changes to larger events.

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    The Grand Duchy of Holstein (German: Großherzogtum Holstein) was a state in northern Germany that existed from the end of Danevirke War in 1864 to the collapse of the German Empire in 1918. The grand duchy was originally created from the Duchy of Holstein and the Duchy of Saxe-Lauenburg, both territories taken from Denmark after the Danevirke War, as the Grand Duchy of Holstein and Saxe-Lauenburg (German: Großherzogtum Holstein und Sachsen-Lauenburg) and granted to the House of Augustenburg. However, the status of the grand duchy as an independent German state would be unrecognised internationally until the Peace of Prague in 1866, which ended the Austro-Prussian War. Prior to its name change in 1876, the state was colloquially known as Holstein-Lauenburg.

    The grand duchy occupied the southern portion of the Jutland Peninsula, with the Baltic Sea to the east, the North Sea to the west, and to the north, the Eider River marked the border with the Kingdom of Denmark. In the south Holstein bordered the Kingdom of Hanover (which became a Prussian province in 1866), the free cities of Hamburg and Lübeck, the two Mecklenburg grand duchies, and the Eutin exclave of the Grand Duchy of Oldenberg. Between 1864 and 1866, the grand duchy was a state of the German Confederation, succeeding its ducal predecessors, and sided with the Kingdom of Prussia at the outbreak of their war with the Austrian Empire. Prussian soldiers had been stationed in Holstein since the war with Denmark, and would remain throughout the 19th century.

    In 1867, the grand duchy became a part of the Prussian-led North German Confederation, a military alliance between 23 German states in the north of the country that favoured the eventual creation of a federal German state. During the Franco-Prussian War, the North German Confederation united with the remaining south German states to form a new federal state in 1871. Holstein became one of the 26 constituent states of the new German Empire. Throughout the decades of the German Empire, Holstein underwent increased industrialisation as the city of Kiel became an important base for the Imperial German Navy, and the construction of the Kiel Canal linked German bases in the Baltic and North seas without the need to sail around Denmark. The 1870s were a period of social and political change for the grand duchy, in 1876 it was formally renamed to simply Holstein, and in 1879 the capital was relocated to the larger, and more important, city of Kiel.

    In 1880 the third grand duke, Ernst Gunther II, succeeded his father at the age of 17 and enacted a liberal constitution which guaranteed democratic rights and created a constitutional monarchy. The Landtag was given extensive legislative powers, with the grand duke reduced to a ceremonial position. During the German Revolution, which began in the immediate aftermath of the German defeat in the First World War, Grand Duke Ernst Gunther II renounced the Holstein throne on 14 November 1918. The grand duchy became the Free State of Holstein, a federated state of the Weimar Republic (1919–1933) and later Nazi Germany (1933–1945), until 1949 when the state was dissolved and its territory merged into the restored Kingdom of Hanover. The deposed Grand Ducal Family of Holstein, led by the current claimant to the grand duchy, are one of the few recognised families of the Hanoverian nobility, and reside primarily at their estate near Kiel.

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    Grand Dukes of Holstein (1864–) (titular since 1918, recognised as part of the Hanoverian nobility since 1949)
    1864–1869: Christian August II (also Duke of Augustenburg since 1814, and claimant Duke of Schleswig-Holstein)
    1869–1880: Friedrich Christian III
    1880–1921: Ernst Gunther II (deposed during the German Revolution)
    1921–1931: Albert
    1931–1934: Friedrich Ferdinand
    1934–1965: Wilhelm Friedrich
    1965–1980: Friedrich Peter
    1980–2017: Christoph
    Heir apparent: Friedrich Ferdinand, Hereditary Grand Duke of Holstein

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    The Schleswig War, also known as the Schleswig-Holstein War or the Three Years’ War, was the first military conflict over the Schleswig-Holstein Question, that took place between March 1848 and May 1852 in southern Denmark and northern Germany. Whilst the duchies were separate possessions of the Danish monarchy, Holstein and Saxe-Lauenburg were both members of the German Confederation, and home to a majority of ethnic Germans. At issue was who should control the duchies of Schleswig and Holstein, which had been in personal union with the Danish Crown since the 15th century, as the only legitimate son of King Christian VIII was childless and the king had decreed a change in the succession laws in the duchies to preserve the personal union, a change deemed illegal by the Germans of Holstein and leading to their rebellion. At issue was the conflicting aims of Danish and German nationalists. Whilst the former believed that Schleswig, but not Holstein, should be integrated into Denmark, the latter believed that the three duchies should form a united state within the German Confederation.

    Inspired by the successes of the 1848 French Revolution, and the outbreak of revolutions across Europe, the German inhabitants of Schleswig and Holstein demanded the recognition of a joint state of Schleswig-Holstein that would be admitted to the German Confederation. When the Danish king refused, the Holsteiners broke out into open rebellion, establishing a provisional government in Kiel led by Christian August II, Duke of Augustenburg and his brother Friedrich, Prince of Noer. The House of Augustenburg, a cadet branch of the Danish royal family, claimed the duchies as the heirs to the Danish kings under salic law. An early victory saw the Prince of Noer seize the Fortress of Rendsborg, a major Danish fortification that contained the main armouries of the duchies, however the Danes evicted the forces occupying Flensborg and routed the rebels at Bov in April. The German Diet recognised the provisional government under the Duke of Augstenburg, and commissioned Prussian forces in intervene on behalf of the revolutionary forces. However, King Friedrich Wilhelm IV of Prussia was opposed to the incursion and ordered the commanding general to withdraw his troops, but Friedrich Graf von Wrangel refused, as he was under the command of the German Confederation.

    Despite multiple truces, conferences and conventions, the war continued as neither side was able to reach a mutually acceptable agreement. Eventually the war ended in May 1852 with a German withdrawal and the signing of a second London Protocol. This agreement represented a return to the status quo ante bellum, with the territorial integrity of Denmark respected, and the personal union with the three duchies continued, with the line of succession to the duchies being modified to remain tied to that of the Danish throne. Although the Protocol confirmed that Holstein and Saxe-Lauenburg were to remain independent sovereign states within the German Confederation, the status of Schleswig was left vague by the final terms of the agreement. The German Diet refused to recognise the Protocol, asserting that upon the death of Frederik VII the personal union between Denmark and the duchies of Holstein and Saxe-Lauenburg would end. Fifteen years later, the integration of the Duchy of Schleswig into the Kingdom of Denmark and the succession of the House of Glücksburg to the Danish throne would trigger the second military conflict over the Schleswig-Holstein Question.

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    The Danevirke War, also known as the Holstein War of Succession, was a brief military conflict that took place between February and May 1864. The war was the second military conflict over the Schleswig-Holstein Question, which concerned the political status of the duchies of Schleswig and Holstein, and by extension Saxe-Lauenburg, and their relationships with both Denmark and the German Confederation, and was part of the wider process of German unification. The main casus belli was the adoption of the new Danish Constitution, which effectively integrated the Duchy of Schleswig into the Kingdom of Denmark, however much of the dispute since the Schleswig War had focused on the successor of King Frederik VII of Denmark. The Germans of the three duchies supported the House of Augustenburg, a cadet branch of the Danish royal family, whilst the Danes favoured the rival House of Glücksburg. The sudden death of Frederik VII and the succession of Prince Christian of Glücksburg as King of Denmark, and by extension head of state of the three duchies according to the London Protocol, led to outrage amongst the German population of the duchies after the king signed the new constitution.

    In the immediate aftermath of the passing of the November Constitution, the German Confederation passed a resolution opposing the measure and calling for the occupation of Holstein and Saxe-Lauenburg by German forces, a measure proposed at the initiative of Prussian Prime Minister Otto von Bismarck. On 24 December 1863, Saxon and Hanoverian troops marched into Holstein under the banner of the German Confederation, whilst Danish troops withdrew back to the border between Schleswig and Holstein, which was heavily fortified behind the Danevirke. Supported by the German soldiers and loyal Holsteiners, Christian August II, Duke of Augustenburg took control of the governments of Holstein and Saxe-Lauenburg. Throughout January the Germans consolidated their control of the territory south of the Eider River, whilst Danish forces maintained the heavily fortified defences north of the river. On 1 February, against the protests of the German Confederation, Prussian troops crossed into Schleswig and attempted to take the Danish positions on the fortified Danevirke near Mysunde. After a long battle the Prussian withdrew as they could not take the Danish positions.

    For the next three months, Prussian forces attempted to dislodge the Danes from their fortified positions along the Danevirke, but each time they were repelled by the Danish artillery and defences. Negotiations began towards a peace agreement in London on 25 April, and on 12 May 1864 the Treaty of Rendsborg, named for the major Danish fortress, was signed. Under the treaty, Denmark surrendered control of all territory south of the Eider River, namely the duchies of Holstein and Saxe-Lauenburg, to the control of the German Confederation, whilst retaining the Duchy of Schleswig. The personal union between Holstein and Denmark was ended, with the House of Augustenburg granted the title of Grand Duke of Holstein, whilst the Danish integration of Schleswig was recognised by the European great powers.

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    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  15. cornelius the noble Well-Known Member

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    I wish this TL was OTL. Except for the fact that I live in "Ohio Country."
     
  16. Riley Uhr Muldoon did nothing wrong

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    The funny thing about this is I live in New Zealand and we would be in the exact same country. Am I allowed to ask who the premier of New Zealand is btw?
     
  17. Turquoise Blue Blossoming Tibby!

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    I think Paula Bennett was FM at one point, not sure if she is anymore
     
  18. Excelsior Time's arrow marches forward

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    Just caught this. I wonder who they are?
     
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  19. jennysnooper87 Proud Albish Citizen Since 2017

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    You and me both. I live in California, and I often find myself dreaming I lived in the Kingdom of California.
     
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  20. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

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    Not gonna lie, there are time I've been so caught up with this TL that I've nearly slipped up in converation... :p

    I'm afraid I don't yet have a complete list of First Ministers of New Zealand yet :(

    At the 2015 imperial election I had Paula Bennett as leader of the centre-right United Party, and by extension the incumbent First Minister, whilst David Cunliffe was leader of the opposition centre-left Social Democrats. In terms of other political parties in New Zealand at the national level, there are: the left-wing ecological Greens, the nationalist New Zealand First, the right-wing libertarian ACT, the left-wing democratic socialist Alliance, and the centrist Internet MANA. Plus the Māori Party of course.

    No one you would recognise from OTL. They originated with Michel Chartier de Lotbinière, Marquis de Lotbinière who was created hereditary Lord Governor of Lower Canada in the 1790s, then descended through his son and grand-daughter before marrying Robert Unwin Harwood. I've traced their genealogy as part of my mapping of some alternate colonial/North American peerages, but it dies out in the 1960s - so the modern day Prince of Quebec (Édouard III Lotbinière) is a fictional individual descended from OTL French Canadian nobility, intermarried with TTL's American aristocracy.

    Why do you say that?
     
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