Hail, Britannia

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by LeinadB93, Jul 30, 2017.

Loading...
  1. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    Thanks :D

    Why thank you :)

    Regarding the different regional movements, it varies between the home nations. So the Francophone nationalists do quite well in Quebec and Acadiana, as does Plaid Cymru in Wales and the SNP is one of the two main Scottish parties. But then in places like New England they are relatively minor on the federal scene, and although in Florida the nationalists formed part of the government, they are in the second-tier of parties. In Puerto Rico the three regionalist parties are the smallest in the legislature, so really it depends where you look.

    The strongest at the moment are the Tasmania party in Australia, which wants Tasmania to separate from Australia as a new home nation, and the English People's party in England which is generally pro-English nationalism. Depending on how you classify the English-speaking home nations, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Cornwall all have strong regionalist parties, but the strongest Anglophone nationalists are probably in Westralia and Louisiana.

    In terms of the English regions, my assumption is that it is very similar to the OTL UK, so the regions are devolved from the English federal government in an uneven manner, making England a federacy rather than a unitary or federal nation.

    Maybe...

    Indeed. Baja was part of Mexico prior to the First World War and was annexed to California (who had claimed it since independence) after the war. It's an autonomous region much like Wasatch, but it is more or less culturally and politically homogeneous with Spanish-speaking California.

    As TB has said the pre-thread posts can be found on the first page of the thread. California is a constitutional monarchy modelled off of Spain and Sweden, with a majority Spanish-speaking population, whereas Texas is a semi-presidential republic much like OTL France. Mexico is an empire and a regional/world power. Cuba and Santo Domingo (OTL Dominican Republic) are both monarchies, the former under a branch of the Bourbons and the later in personal union with Spain. Haiti is a mess with the Kingdom in the north, the Republic in the south and a whole mess of conflict in the middle.

    Excellent :D Looking forward to it.

    My assumption is that they are doing better than OTL, due to the wider range of popular sports and also greater public interest. I'm not an expert on sports but I'd assume that many sports teams in places like Columbia, Canada and England have a male and female team (perhaps, not sure how that would work).

    But as I say they are definitely more high profile and popular!
     
    Damian0358 and Lewie like this.
  2. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    Realised I forgot to answer this point. That state in OTL Sinai, Israel, Palestine and Lebanon is "The Levant" a secular state roughly evenly split between Muslims, Jews and Christians.

    I'm leaning towards it being a monarchy under the heirs to the King of Jerusalem (intermarried with the neighbouring monarchies of Jordan and Egypt), but I'm not sure whether that is stretching things. Given that monarchies are much more prevalent ITTL.
     
    Lewie likes this.
  3. sarahz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    [

    Haha I don't think so.

    Well it works fine in the OTL USA, where the Vice President is from the same party as the President and elected in the same way. But in a parliamentary system, having a Prime Minister (even an acting one) who isn't from the largest governing party is rare (Australia is an exception). So the rule that it goes to the highest ranked member of the incumbent PMs party is to avoid a situtation where you end up with, for example, a Prime Minister who leads the minor party in the coalition (with 47 seats) as opposed to someone from the major party with nearly 300 seats, as could have happened in 1974 when Norman Kirk died.[/QUOTE]

    This logic was followed OTL in the 2010-15 coalition at Westminster. BUT in the devolved Scottish Assembly it was not and Jim Wallace filled in as a Lib Dem for a Labour First Ministerial vacancy or absence several times.
     
  4. FleetMac Patriotic Scalawag

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Location:
    VA boy living in a TX world
    So basically a bigger, more populous (and hopefully stable) Lebanon analogue?

    I can see what yoy mean about monarchies ITTL but descent from Jerusalem's kings might be a bit much IMO.
     
    Damian0358 likes this.
  5. Lewie Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Thanks for the reply, love this timeline and can't wait to see more. But yeah restoring the line of Jerusalem might be a step to far, and one of the local Arab monarchies probably wouldn't work either, given the demographics. A parliamentary republic might be best bet.
     
  6. Damian0358 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Location:
    Scordisci
    To add to the responses above, wouldn't "The Levant" be an inappropriate name, as it doesn't include the entirety of the Levant? Of course, it appears to be a better name than the more-regionally-appropriate-but-possibly-still-inappropriate Palestine/Philistia, and the completely inappropriate Israel/Judea, but Levant isn't exactly wholly accurate either. Cisjordan would be a parallel to Transjordan, but, well, that works for as a region within a country, not a country itself, discounting when OTL Jordan was known as Transjordan, of course.

    What's the status of the two neighbouring countries in the east where OTL Syria and Jordan are? And can I assume good things for the Assyrians in TTL!Syria and Kurdistan?
     
  7. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Location:
    UK, EU (for the moment), Earth
    How about the Levantine Union?
     
    LeinadB93 likes this.
  8. puerto-nic0 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Boston Republic?
     
  9. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    TBH the situation has never really come up ITTL regarding the succession. When Curtis died Vandenberg was Foreign Secretary so he became PM, Castle succeeded Kirk because of her role as First Secretary of State. Layton's death was expected and planned for so the SDP Deputy leader Brad Miller became Acting Prime Minister until the party elected a new leader.

    I'm thinking of ret-conning the succession rule avoiding individuals of different parties to only apply in the event of the incumbent's death or permanent incapacitation, so for example when George W. Bush was under anaesthetic his deputy (Tony Blair) was Acting PM for the duration of the operation.

    How does that sound?

    Yeah pretty much. I know that the idea of a monarchy is a bit far fetched, but it was fun to play around with.

    AE, consider that name canon :) A parliamentary republic is probably the best way to go, but I am tempted to go with a system similar to OTL Bosnia or Switzerland, with a multi-member "National Council" (2 Christian, 2 Muslim, 2 Jewish and 1 other) and a rotating presidency amongst the members. Whilst the Parliament is officially secular.

    Whilst the Levant region covers a much larger area, I think it is an appropriate name for this state.

    Syria and Jordan are both Hashemite monarchies, or at least they are ATM (Jordan definitely is, Syria is a bit up in the air). The Assyrians definitely fare better in both Syria and Kurdistan, but I'd imagine that many of them have emigrated to the Levant ITTL.

    Whoops, meant to change that to New England republicans! Basically a loosely organised part of the wider American republicans that were based primarily out of Boston and the recent European immigrant populations.
     
  10. CanadianTory Kinda on Hiatus

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Location:
    The Loyalist Province
    Brenda Robertson is basically there because I'm a fan of hers. She almost became the MP for Moncton, but lucked out against former Mayor Cochrane. After he lost re-election in 1988, Cochrane later served as head of the PC Party. Robertson was later appointed to the senate.

    For those with any knowledge of Tory politics in NB, she was as tough as Elsie Wayne, but way more centrist.

    I recommended her because why the hell not?
     
    LeinadB93 and Nazi Space Spy like this.
  11. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    Following on from TB's post about Patagonia I've got a news update:

    ----

    [​IMG]
    Patagonian Government Loses Budget Vote

    TRELEW - After a tense session in the House of Representatives, the lower chamber of Patagonia's General Assembly, yesterday the government's budget bill has been narrowly defeated with 84 MGAs voting for, and 90 against. The defeat of Caroline Stanley (Civic Democratic) and her minority government mean that new elections have been called, and the Prime Minister confirmed in a press conference yesterday evening that she had spoken to the President-General and advised him to dissolve the General Assembly and call an election, scheduled to be held on 16 October.

    Stanley's government, which has only been office since a narrow victory at the 2015 election, has been seen as very unstable with two high profile defections to the Unionists in 2016 and dissatisfaction from the CDA's Welsh-speaking supporters over the decision to more closely engage with the Andean Community, perceived by many as change in position by the traditionally pro-Commonwealth party. Opposition leader, and former Prime Minister, David Peralta (Progressive Country) issued a statement saying that he is "looking forward to the election" and believes his party represents "a vision of Patagonia that every citizen can support".

    Patagonian Broadcasting Corporation Opinion Poll
    Civic Democratic : 35.23%
    Progressive Country : 34.84%
    Social Democratic : 10.93%
    People's Voice : 7.44%
    Unionist : 6.72%
    other : 4.84%

    In Other News

    - Catastrophic flooding has continued to affect large areas of the Texan state of Matagorda, especially around the country's largest city of Houston. An estimated 30,000 people have been evacuated from their homes due to rising water levels as several dams have been breached. At least 38 people have been killed so far, and more than 300,000 houses have been left without power and clean water. The neighbouring Louisianian state of Acadiana has issued a severe weather warning as Hurricane Harvey begins to move eastward across the nation. Acadiana Premier Jacques Roy (Parti de la Nation Cadien) has declared a state of emergency across the western parts of the state and mandatory evacuations in Cameron Parish, and First Minister Bobby Jindal (Unionist) has placed the Louisiana National Militia on standby should flooding occur.

    - A car bomb has exploded in Niamey, the second largest city in the United Nigerian States, at 13:42 GMT yesterday killing at least 60 people and injuring dozens more. The attack, claimed by the jihadist Al-Mourabitoun group, was targeting Commonwealth forces based in the city as part of the ongoing military intervention in the War in West Africa. Sources report that the intended target was a British military installation on the edge of the city's Green Zone but the bomb is believed to have detonated prematurely in one of the city's major markets. Reports are unclear as to the exact death toll, but police, the emergency services and Commonwealth troops are on the scene, armed patrols have increased throughout the city and Commonwealth bases have been put on high alert throughout the country.

    - Royalist insurgents have taken control of the city of Hinche in Haiti after a fifteen-day offensive that resulted in the South Haitian-aligned Republicans routed from the region and the Royalists claiming control of the city and much of the Peligre department. Republican and royalist forces have continued to clash in the town of Dessalines and the Montagnes Noires, while the South Haitian military has clamped down on anti-government protesters in the capital Port-au-Prince. Britain has called an emergency session of the UN Security Council to discuss the escalating Haitian conflict and the recent breakdown in the ceasefire.
     
  12. FleetMac Patriotic Scalawag

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Location:
    VA boy living in a TX world
    Interesting look at Patagonian politics, again a wonderful concept for a nationstate.

    Also interesting news items; the Hurricane Harvey bit is sadly to be expected (from the flooding proper to the power outages), but the Niamey bit also piques my interest (Britannia does seem to have quite a lot of military commitments to uphold, just how big IS their military?!). Ditto for the ongoing troubles in Haiti, poor place never gets a break.

    Something that occurred to me WRT British languages, are Hong Kong and Singapore mostly English speaking ITTL? I'd have reckoned Cantonese and Mandarin+Malay are still quite common but didn't show up on the map.

    EDIT: Almost forgot about that big ol' lake in Egypt
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  13. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    Thanks :) We are definitely looking forward to exploring the country in greater detail.

    Actually West Africa is the only "active" British military engagement at the moment, and it isn't just the British that are involved. As it is a Commonwealth-led intervention you've got Californians, Texans, Hanoverians and troops from the Commonwealth states in West Africa. In terms of the size of the Armed Forces, they are a similar proportion to the OTL USA, according to my data there are about 1.5 million active personnel.

    It's also worth pointing out that Britain has continued to operate a form of conscription to the present day, following the success of the 1957 National Service referendum. I haven't fully fleshed out the inner workings, but the general premise is that at some point after their 18th birthday every British citizen is required to undertake two years of "National Service". Some opt for this to be in Navy, Army, Air Force or Coast Guard reserve (a bit like the OTL Territorial Army), while others join their home nations' national militia (I've mentioned Sierra Leone's and Louisiana's before). The Royal Militias are basically TTL's version of the US National Guard, and are under the command of the home nation governments unless "imperialised" by the Imperial government (which happened in Canada and Oregon during the Alaskan Uprising, or Carolina during the 1960s).

    For those who have any reason preventing them from military service, either objection or medically unfit, take part in either the "Civil Defence" or "Civilian Service" aspects. In the former you are trained to assist the emergency services as well as natural disaster relief, whilst in the latter you are involved in health care, welfare, environmental protection, agriculture or development assistance abroad. National Service is arranged around university/college education or employment/apprenticeships.

    Cantonese, Mandarin and Malay are still quite common, and it is simply a mistake that I missed them off the map, just like how I missed the Sierra Leonean languages off as well... What I was trying to get across was the day-to-day and educational languages in each home nation, but I missed a few...

    Ah Lake Qattara, a lasting legacy of Franco-British-Arab cooperation. Pretty salty though...
     
  14. Pokemon Master What's it to you?

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    Central New Jersey
    What was the result of the 2012 marijuana referendum?
     
  15. LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    [​IMG]

    In all seriousness it passed by a significant (but not massive) margin.
     
  16. Threadmarks: Scotland; 2017 general election; Parliament; Monarch & Lord Lieutenant

    LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    So I've had this sat on my computer for months, but I finally broke the writers block to get the background written up. I'm afraid updates are likely to slow from this point onwards as I go back to work today as a high school teacher :(. I will aim to post a set of wikiboxes or a map or some other infodump at least once a fortnight (hopefully once a week) but please bear with me :)

    ----

    The Free State of Scotland is a British constituent country covering the northern of the island of Great Britain, part of the British Home Isles. Scotland shares a border with the Kingdom of England to the south, and is surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean, with the North Sea to the east and the Irish Sea to the southwest.

    Scotland emerged as an independent kingdom in the early Middle Ages, and it suffered many invasions by the English to the south prior to the successful war of independence led by King Robert I which saw Scotland remain a distinct state throughout the late Middle Ages. Upon the death of Elizabeth I of England in 1603, King James VI of Scotland became King of England and Ireland, uniting the three kingdoms in a personal union. Following the English Civil Wars, the Restoration and the Glorious Revolution, Scotland became religiously dominated by the Anglican Church as well as saw the emergence of Jacobitism as a political force. In 1707, England and Scotland were united to form the Kingdom of Great Britain, although Scotland retained distinct royal and legal institutions separate from those in England and Wales, which contributed to the continuation of Scottish culture and national identity. Religiously the Presbyterian Church saw a rise in support amongst the population, whilst the Anglican Church of Scotland merged with the Church of England to form the Church of Great Britain. After the death of King George II in 1751, Scotland became the first part of the Home Isles to proclaim Frederick I as King, whilst officials in England prevaricated over the succession.

    Throughout the 19th century Scotland thrived as part of the British Empire, with Glasgow becoming one of the largest cities in the world and Clydeside shipyards becoming the world’s pre-eminent shipbuilding centre. Scotland experience rapid industrial development throughout this period, although the Highland Clearances saw the forced displacement of much of the Gaelic-speaking population overseas to Nova Scotia and the Ohio Country. Scotland would accede to the Union as part of Great Britain upon the signing of the Acts of Union on 4 July 1876. Scotland played a major role in the British effort in both World Wars, providing men, ships and machinery. The shipbuilding industry would expand, but a serious depression severely stagnated the economy for the 1920s and 30s. Scotland became one of the heartlands for the growing Empire-wide Social Democratic movement, known as “Red Clydeside”. A home rule movement emerged in Scotland throughout the early 20th century, which was eventually successful in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, when the country was granted home rule in 1949, and Scotland formally acceded to the Union as a separate dominion on 7 May 1950 alongside Wales.

    In the late 20th and early 21st century, Scotland has experienced a cultural and economic renaissance with a resurgent financial services industry, electronics manufacturing, shipbuilding and the oil and gas industry in the North Sea. Scotland’s education system, which place a greater emphasis on a broad education, became the foundation of the reforms enacted by the Trudeau and Carter governments in the Imperial education system. Despite periodic surges in nationalist sentiment, the people of Scotland have consistently voted in favour of remaining part of the Empire in three referendums.

    ----

    The 2017 Scottish general election was held on 23 March 2017 to elect, under the additional member system, the 137 members of the Scottish House of Representatives, 73 from single-member constituencies and 64 from regional lists.

    The governing National government, led by incumbent First Minister John Swinney, was defeated by the opposition Independent Labour party, led by Jim Murphy, a former member of the Imperial Parliament. A key issue in the campaign was the Nationals desire to hold a fourth referendum on Scottish independence, which although supported by the Greens and Socialists, proved to be an unpopular message with the Scottish people.

    The ILP campaigned on a promise of getting back to governing the country, pledging to set up an “Oil Fund” on the Norwegian model, to save the revenue from the oil and gas industry for the future, as well as a promise to pursue more renewable forms of energy generation. The liberal conservative Reform party campaigned on a promise to increase apprenticeships and reverse cuts to the education system, whilst the centre-right Unionists mainly ran in opposition to another referendum, offering very few policy proposals. Many voters would bolt from the Unionists to Reform, helping to solidify their position as Scotland’s third party.

    Despite failing to secure a majority, as no government has since the 1999 election, the ILP was invited to form a government as the largest party in the House. Jim Murphy would be sworn in by the Lord Lieutenant on 24 March as the thirteenth First Minister of Scotland. In the aftermath of the election result, John Swinney announced his resignation from the party leadership, replaced by deputy leader Nicola Sturgeon.

    ----

    The Scottish Parliament is the legislative branch of the Free State of Scotland which was created with the passage of the Scottish Home Rule Act in 1949. The Parliament is a unicameral body consisting of the House of Representatives, with 137 members, 73 elected from single-member constituencies and 64 are returned from eight additional member regions, each electing eight MPs. The original Parliament of Scotland of the independent kingdom existed from the early 13th century until its dissolution in 1707 when Scotland and England merged to form Great Britain. Following a referendum in 1948, in which the Scottish people voted for home rule, the current Parliament was created by the 1949 Home Rule Acts with all the law-making powers of any other dominion legislature.

    Prior to 2004 the Parliament met at Parliament Hall and occasionally Holyrood Palace, earning it the metronym Holyrood, before moving into the purpose built Parliament Building in the Holyrood area of Edinburgh.

    ----

    The Monarchy of Scotland is the foundation of the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the Scottish government, serving as the personification of the Scottish state. Traditionally the Scottish monarchy traces its origins back to Kenneth I MacAlpin in 843, but was dissolved in 1707 with the passage of the Acts of Union before being recreated in 1949 with Scottish home rule. The Scottish monarch is unique within the Empire in that they are styled as “Grace” rather than “Majesty”, a legacy of the pre-Union monarchy. The current Scottish monarch is Queen Elizabeth II, who has reigned since 6 February 1952, and her Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay, is the heir apparent.

    ----

    The Lord Lieutenant of Scotland is the viceregal representative of the British monarch in their capacity as the monarch of Scotland. The position was established in 1949 upon Scottish home rule due to the fact that the sovereign is shared equally with the other Home Nations and the Commonwealth realms, but resides predominantly in England. The Queen of Scots, on the advice of her Scottish First Minister, appoints a lord lieutenant to carry out most of her constitutional and ceremonial duties. The current lord lieutenant is Sir Gordon Wilson who has served since 28 January 2014. Although in theory the lord lieutenant is not term limited, the convention is that the appointee serves a single five-year term before retiring.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  17. Threadmarks: First Ministers of Scotland

    LeinadB93 Just Leinad

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Location:
    God's Own County
    And I hope you're starting to see a pattern here:

    ---

    First Ministers of the Free State of Scotland (1949–)
    11. 1949–1958 Sir John Hope (Unionist majority)
    12. 1958–1962 Sir Arthur Woodburn (Independent Labour majority)
    13. 1962–1966 Gordon Campbell (Unionist majority) (1st)
    14. 1966–1968 William Wolfe (National minority) (1st)
    15. 1968–1971 Gordon Campbell (Unionist majority) (2nd)
    16. 1971–1971 William Wolfe (National minority) (2nd)
    15. 1971–1975 William Ross (Independent Labour majority)
    16. 1975–1978 William Wolfe (National majority) (3rd)
    16. 1978–1986 David Steel (ReformUnionist majority coalition)
    17. 1986–1994 John Smith† (Independent Labour majority)
    18. 1994–2000 Donald Dewar† (Independent Labour majority)
    19. 2000–2003 Jack McConnell (Independent Labour majority)
    10. 2003–2007 Alex Salmond (National minority)
    11. 2007–2013 Gordon Brown (Independent Labour minority)
    12. 2013–2017 John Swinney (National minority)
    13. 2017–2017 Jim Murphy (Independent Labour minority)

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Wayside 'Cause I'm Just a Teenage SocDem, Baby

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Location:
    Former Firewall State
    Oh, wow, you're a high school teacher? Neat! :D
     
  19. MasterSanders #moggmentum

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Location:
    to the right of you
    Not even a complex PoD could save Scotland from such a horrific parliament building. :p
     
    Gladsome, 20person, LeinadB93 and 2 others like this.
  20. CanadianTory Kinda on Hiatus

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Location:
    The Loyalist Province
    I'm in the same boat as @LeinadB93, albeit more as an intern trying to become a teacher
     
    LeinadB93 and Wayside like this.
Loading...