Hadrian's Rome: Rise of the Greater Eastern Roman Empire

[Iron_Lord]

POD: 124- Hadrian fails negotiating a settlement with the Parthian King Osroes I and chooses to hold Mesopotamia, Assyria and Armenia.

Rome invades the Parthian held Zagros Mountains, defending Mesopotamia, Assyria and Armenia from further Parthia Attacks. Under Hadrian, Rome develops a massive manned wall, similar to the Border created in Brittania.

Parthia, No longer reaping the benefits of of Mesopotamia River vally per OTL, and already wracked by Noble infighting and nomadic incursions, accelerates Parthia fracturing, allowing various Vassal States to carve regions out for themselves.

Over the next 200 years, the Early Christian Church, drawn by the richest of East begin to convert the people in the warring States of the middle east, creating the Church of the East.

The Roman empire Splits, East and West (as in OTL), in 385 AD. As the Western Roman Empire surcumes to it's doom, the Eastern Empire survives (as in OTL) and begins to invade the various Middle Eastern warring states. Christian Missionaries go as far as China and begin to spread Christianity, having ripple affects throught society.
And this is were I have no Clue what to do! Should the Greater Eastern ROman empire crush the Islamic Armies? With Romes focusing it's attention on the east, should the West fall faster?

Comments would be appreciated!

 

[Silver01]

1) if the sassanids show up sya good bye to Roman conquest but they can be butterflied

2) islam may never exist as the point of departure is so far back in time

 

[Iron_Lord]

1) if the sassanids show up sya good bye to Roman conquest but they can be butterflied

2) islam may never exist as the point of departure is so far back in time

Great! Due to increased Christian activities in the east (and hopefully arabia) Islam may never exist... Well that solves that!
If Hadrian Does his massive controlled border idea, wouldn't the Sassanids wash against the border like a wave against a rock? A had assumed that the Sassnids were not versed in the arts of Seige warfare? Or maybe Im wrong...

 

[Iron_Lord]

Correction, Sassanids had highly affective Seige warfare tactics (OTL), Although if they can't expand into mesoptamia, they should be contained.

 

[Silver01]

Correction, Sassanids had highly affective Seige warfare tactics (OTL), Although if they can't expand into mesoptamia, they should be contained.

assuming a crisis like the crisis of the third century still occrus the sha can take back mesopotemia

 

[Iron_Lord]

assuming a crisis like the crisis of the third century still occrus the sha can take back mesopotemia

This timeline is assuming that the Romans Focuse their efforts on the East and Hold the highly Defendable Zagros Mountains. But yes... A third century Crisis may be a (slight) problem. Although... Mesopotamia is one of the core reasons that these Middle Eastern Empires were so powerful, right? (Population Centres, Taxations, ext)

 

[Silver01]

This timeline is assuming that the Romans Focuse their efforts on the East and Hold the highly Defendable Zagros Mountains. But yes... A third century Crisis may be a (slight) problem. Although... Mesopotamia is one of the core reasons that these Middle Eastern Empires were so powerful, right? (Population Centres, Taxations, ext)

eh it was important but in this time , before the establishment of the sassanid empire , adashir was king of peris , and the early capital of the sassanid empire was Istakhr.

assuming that some sha as talented as him unites persia and rome is in third century crisis like crisis

roman mesopotemia does not stand much of a chance

 

[Iron_Lord]

eh it was important but in this time , before the establishment of the sassanid empire , adashir was king of peris , and the early capital of the sassanid empire was Istakhr.

assuming that some sha as talented as him unites persia and rome is in third century crisis like crisis

roman mesopotemia does not stand much of a chance

I see... Is their anyway that Rome can keep the east and Mesopotamia?

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

I see... Is their anyway that Rome can keep the east and Mesopotamia?

Maybe if Rome is able to beat the Parthians down so much they can release client kingdoms in Hyrcania, Media Atropatene, Susiana Elymais, and maybe even a rump "Persian" kingdom in the south.

Now all this meticulous divide and conquer strategy would fall apart instantly in a crisis of the third century situation but it would still be better than not having it and would probably buy you some time to get your affairs in order unlike the Sassanids who'll pounce the moment they smell blood in the water.

 

[Iron_Lord]

Maybe if Rome is able to beat the Parthians down so much they can release client kingdoms in Hyrcania, Media Atropatene, Susiana Elymais, and maybe even a rump "Persian" kingdom in the south.

Now all this meticulous divide and conquer strategy would fall apart instantly in a crisis of the third century situation but it would still be better than not having it and would probably buy you some time to get your affairs in order unlike the Sassanids who'll pounce the moment they smell blood in the water.

Thats the idea, beating the Persians up and fracturing them/playing them against each other. Stupid third Century Crisis! Gahh.... I will probably have to butterfly it away...

 

[Atterdag]

2) islam may never exist as the point of departure is so far back in time

I think it has a pretty good chance to or atleast something similar to it, if it does as well however, now that's something else.

 

[Iron_Lord]

I think it has a pretty good chance to or atleast something similar to it, if it does as well however, now that's something else.

Assuming that this TL's Eastern Roman empire doesn't end up fighting a endless war against the Sassnids, it should have a pretty good chance against Islam. Plus, Now that their is huge amount of Christian activity in the east, we may see much more Christian activity in Arabia.

 

[Jürgen]

Maybe we could see a conquest of Persia and a 3 way split of the Roman Empire, with one empire in the West, one in the eastern Mediterranean and one in Persia-Mesopotamia. Let’s call them the Latin, Greek and Farsi Empires. The Greek Empire falls to the Goths, forcing the Farsi Empire to establish control over the Levant and Egypt, while the Goths control Anatolia and the Roman Balkans. The Latin Empire lose most of their territory to Germanic invaders but keep control over Italy and North Africa longer, only to lose Italy and be reduced to a North African state.

 

[Iron_Lord]

Maybe we could see a conquest of Persia and a 3 way split of the Roman Empire, with one empire in the West, one in the eastern Mediterranean and one in Persia-Mesopotamia. Let’s call them the Latin, Greek and Farsi Empires. The Greek Empire falls to the Goths, forcing the Farsi Empire to establish control over the Levant and Egypt, while the Goths control Anatolia and the Roman Balkans. The Latin Empire lose most of their territory to Germanic invaders but keep control over Italy and North Africa longer, only to lose Italy and be reduced to a North African state.

Hey... I could totally see this happening!

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Stupid third Century Crisis! Gahh.... I will probably have to

Even if you get rid of the crisis there's not much stopping another large scale civil war from breaking out at some point or another. Sooner or later you're gonna get someone like Alexander Severus, Commodus, or Domitian in charge that causes such a situation.

we may see much more Christian activity in Arabia.

Honestly that's probably what led to the Rise of Islam in the first place. Pagan Arabs would never so quickly accept a monotheistic religion out of the blue and as such wouldn't have that unifying factor.

one in Persia-Mesopotamia.

I once pitched a similar idea in an old thread a few years ago, the main problem would be that it would need to be sufficiently romanized which given the pre-existing urban population as well as the long and arduous land route make doing so difficult. At best you might be able to nominally hold it like the Selucids but that still wasn't the most ideal situation and without Syria or the Levant to balance things out...

I suppose a system of Roman "Prefects" ( Satraps in all but name) could be placed in Persia along with an Assyrian mass deportation and importation policy you could hold a tentative grasp on Persia but it would make a VERY powerful base for any Usurper.