Hadrian's Consolidation - reboot

[Alessandro]

Soo let's recap all that's going on:
- the Armenian kingdom has defeat the army send to keep it from helping the Roman Empire and divert Roman troops in the area.
- the Parthian attack has been stalled by the Roman troops.
- A Roman counterattack has been despatched and has reached and pillaged the Parthian city and gain an amazing amount of loot and slave, that consist of the next generation of the Parthian people.
Yeap, even if the campaign will stop right now, the Parthuan as been destroyed as a treat for the Roman for At LEAST a couple of generations That will teach people to not fuck with Rome! MUHAHAHA!!!

 

[Hecatee]

Soo let's recap all that's going on:
- the Armenian kingdom has defeat the army send to keep it from helping the Roman Empire and divert Roman troops in the area.
- the Parthian attack has been stalled by the Roman troops.
- A Roman counterattack has been despatched and has reached and pillaged the Parthian city and gain an amazing amount of loot and slave, that consist of the next generation of the Parthian people.
Yeap, even if the campaign will stop right now, the Parthuan as been destroyed as a treat for the Roman for At LEAST a couple of generations That will teach people to not fuck with Rome! MUHAHAHA!!!

Oh it's not finished... The main Parthian force is still in Babylonia and at least two waves of Scythians, each a few thousand men strong, must still retreat through the Parthian empire to the eastern shore of the Caspian sea or be destroyed in Roman territory, with two other groups of nomads retreating to the north of the Black Sea and toward the north of the Caspian, where we'll soon see a large angry underpaid army of Scythians who know there is no more defenses in Parthia...

 

[Alessandro]

Oh it's not finished... The main Parthian force is still in Babylonia and at least two waves of Scythians, each a few thousand men strong, must still retreat through the Parthian empire to the eastern shore of the Caspian sea or be destroyed in Roman territory, with two other groups of nomads retreating to the north of the Black Sea and toward the north of the Caspian, where we'll soon see a large angry underpaid army of Scythians who know there is no more defenses in Parthia...

Ohh boy! This'll be a bloodbath 🤔

 

[RomanCenturion22]

I think its safe to say that with this defeat and the very angry Scythians, Parthia has been removed as a threat for quite some time. This could actually provide Rome enough security and stability in the region to invest in Mesopotamia and make it a very lucrative province for the empire, not as lucrative as Egypt maybe but still a considerable addition for Rome

 

[minifidel]

So pleased to have finally caught up with this TL! It's been a wonderful read and I look forward to being part of the discussion too

Oh it's not finished... The main Parthian force is still in Babylonia and at least two waves of Scythians, each a few thousand men strong, must still retreat through the Parthian empire to the eastern shore of the Caspian sea or be destroyed in Roman territory, with two other groups of nomads retreating to the north of the Black Sea and toward the north of the Caspian, where we'll soon see a large angry underpaid army of Scythians who know there is no more defenses in Parthia...

I can't help but imagine a horde of tens of thousands of angry Scythians running around Persepolis demanding payment, and eventually realizing that they can just take over the place.

 

[Hecatee]

So pleased to have finally caught up with this TL! It's been a wonderful read and I look forward to being part of the discussion too

I can't help but imagine a horde of tens of thousands of angry Scythians running around Persepolis demanding payment, and eventually realizing that they can just take over the place.

Thanks for the dedication to reading all those posts, it was a pleasure to follow your long reading up the thread (actually there were 2 of you at the same time )
Actually given that you've read it all in one go, I got to ask : does it hold a degree of consistency in the story ? And does it keep a degree of quality (or does it improve) over time ?

 

[minifidel]

Thanks for the dedication to reading all those posts, it was a pleasure to follow your long reading up the thread (actually there were 2 of you at the same time )
Actually given that you've read it all in one go, I got to ask : does it hold a degree of consistency in the story ? And does it keep a degree of quality (or does it improve) over time ?

Threadmarks and reader mode made it a lot easier!

I got hooked and couldn't stop reading, the updates are very consistent, and I've loved to see the small innovations build up toward a Roman proto-industrialization.

 

[jwgview]

If I recall correctly, the Romans have discovered/been shown a Base 10 Number System (but I may be wrong since Hindu-Arabic Number System is about 300-400 years in the future OTL). If so, has this generated higher mathematics yet? I thought there was a post on double entry bookkeeping and forensic accounting.

 

[Cuchulainn]

I didn't look at Ah.com for over a year, so when I came back i had forgotten much of the details of the stories I had been following.

So I went back to the beginning of this story and followed it through, it seems consistent to me, a little bit fast on the technical advances but not obvious wanking or ASB.

In fact things like a central engineering establishment & a central military command are so obvious that one has to ask why the Romans never did it. The European powers started to do this at the end of the medieval period so it's not beyond belief. Although maybe you should be careful not to push this side of things too far.

Eventually the period of mass migration out of the Steppes/Central Asia will be hard to avoid, 500+ years of hard as nails mobile, self-sufficient horse armies, this will cause major problems for the Roman military & society. Likewise the plagues, these cannot be written out by the Persian collapse(s), not if the trade with the East is growing. Although avoiding the constant civil wars should help.

You do have a good writing style that keeps one engaged in a flowing storyline, very commendable as English is not your first language, from the more personal stories i take it that you are Belg (maar/mais Vlaams ou/of Wallons weet ik niet/je ne sais pas 😉.
Carry on, good sir.

 

[minifidel]

In fact things like a central engineering establishment & a central military command are so obvious that one has to ask why the Romans never did it. The European powers started to do this at the end of the medieval period so it's not beyond belief. Although maybe you should be careful not to push this side of things too far.

I think a lot of the technical innovations are well within the realm of possibility in a stabilized Roman Empire; the most outlandish one is certainly steam powered ships, but it's been a very gradual development, yet to trickle down into the mainstream even after almost a century of tinkering. I'm more surprised that printing or horse-drawn rail hasn't been developed yet, but I know that printing is pretty close (and horse-drawn rail is just going to take one machinatorium noticing that following the grooves carved into the roads reduces the wear on the wheels).

Eventually the period of mass migration out of the Steppes/Central Asia will be hard to avoid, 500+ years of hard as nails mobile, self-sufficient horse armies, this will cause major problems for the Roman military & society. Likewise the plagues, these cannot be written out by the Persian collapse(s), not if the trade with East is growing. Although avoiding the constant civil wars should help.

I think the plagues have been contained ever so slightly by better sanitation, a small but steadily growing healthcare network and better access to hygiene through new public baths. They're also on the cusp of discovering vaccination, which is also going to help prevent some other outbreaks. But when a plague does hit, it's probably going to be quite severe, as peace, prosperity and general good health is developing very tightly interwoven communication networks that will really speed up the spread of a plague.

 

[Hecatee]

Vulture’s keep, Armenian Kingdom, June 248

The sun shone high over the heads of the defenders of the keep. A full cohort of Roman auxiliary infantry had arrived to the fortress the day before, to the relief of the exhausted defenders. Of course the Scythians had already fled toward the North, leaving their deads behind.

Mynasian was one of the survivor. He sported a few impressive scars and seemed to have grown in stature, the innocent youth dying in the combat to reveal the man he had now become, an impressive young leader.

It was him who had welcomed the Romans, his commander being too wounded to move. The Romans had been impressed by what they saw : the remains of the battle still lay at the foot of the walls, broken scaling ladders, fragments of weapons, … It was all testimony of the fierceness of the fight.

The auxiliaries had not lost time : under their centurions some had prepared quarters in the fortress while the others went outside to clean the approaches to the walls. Meanwhile the officers toured the facility with Mynasian. A translator brought by the Romans helped him explain the events of the previous weeks, and they also examined the damages done by the barbarians during their assaults and looked at the detritus of the fight at the foot of the wall.

A soldier came to the group as Mynasian was explaining the fight of the first night. Catching his attention, the soldier gave him a small object : the fortress commander’s ring. The man had finally died and was giving Mynasian command of the fortress until a new commander was appointed by the king.

 

[Donald Reaver]

A man to keep an eye on.

 

[Hecatee]

If I recall correctly, the Romans have discovered/been shown a Base 10 Number System (but I may be wrong since Hindu-Arabic Number System is about 300-400 years in the future OTL). If so, has this generated higher mathematics yet? I thought there was a post on double entry bookkeeping and forensic accounting.

Yes, during the rule of Marcus Aurelius, the Alexandrian library rediscovered it by looking at babylonian archives, and they do have a symbol for nihil (zero). It has been used to improve geometry, but no true advancements in algebra yet although we are arriving the period of Diophantus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantus. I must confess that I'm not good at maths so I don't dare go on that minefield !

I didn't look at Ah.com for over a year, so when I came back i had forgotten much of the details of the stories I had been following.

So I went back to the beginning of this story and followed it through, it seems consistent to me, a little bit fast on the technical advances but not obvious wanking or ASB.

In fact things like a central engineering establishment & a central military command are so obvious that one has to ask why the Romans never did it. The European powers started to do this at the end of the medieval period so it's not beyond belief. Although maybe you should be careful not to push this side of things too far.

Eventually the period of mass migration out of the Steppes/Central Asia will be hard to avoid, 500+ years of hard as nails mobile, self-sufficient horse armies, this will cause major problems for the Roman military & society. Likewise the plagues, these cannot be written out by the Persian collapse(s), not if the trade with the East is growing. Although avoiding the constant civil wars should help.

You do have a good writing style that keeps one engaged in a flowing storyline, very commendable as English is not your first language, from the more personal stories i take it that you are Belg (maar/mais Vlaams ou/of Wallons weet ik niet/je ne sais pas 😉.
Carry on, good sir.

Thank you for the review ! I willingly admit to going somewhat overboard with the steam engine, but as other have mentioned I've mainly had land steam engines and the steam ships are really a rarity except now with the recent operations in the red sea and arabian gulf which are the first case of a fleet of steamships sailing toghether on a long distance.

About the steppe migrations, yes they will appear and be a problem, but I've already somewhat slowed them by having quite a lot of tribesmen killed in the last few decades, undermining the demography rather early on to delay the apparition of the problem.

About the plagues, yes there will be plagues, even if I did cancel the first big one I can't stop them all and I have to put a new one in the story in the next 50 years I think.

As for my writting, yes I always have to start my academic talks done in English by asking forgiveness for my French

I think a lot of the technical innovations are well within the realm of possibility in a stabilized Roman Empire; the most outlandish one is certainly steam powered ships, but it's been a very gradual development, yet to trickle down into the mainstream even after almost a century of tinkering. I'm more surprised that printing or horse-drawn rail hasn't been developed yet, but I know that printing is pretty close (and horse-drawn rail is just going to take one machinatorium noticing that following the grooves carved into the roads reduces the wear on the wheels).

I think the plagues have been contained ever so slightly by better sanitation, a small but steadily growing healthcare network and better access to hygiene through new public baths. They're also on the cusp of discovering vaccination, which is also going to help prevent some other outbreaks. But when a plague does hit, it's probably going to be quite severe, as peace, prosperity and general good health is developing very tightly interwoven communication networks that will really speed up the spread of a plague.

Yes, printing is by now just a question of making it go public. Vaccination I'm not sure yet, although I think I'll have a major plague before I introduce it.

 

[minifidel]

Yes, printing is by now just a question of making it go public. Vaccination I'm not sure yet, although I think I'll have a major plague before I introduce it.

You've already written about a local hospital looking into the odd case of the cattle workers seemingly immune to smallpox, which is how the first vaccine was discovered. They might not realize it can be replicated for other diseases until they get a better handle on germ theory and a better understanding of how illnesses spread in general though.

 

[Hecatee]

You've already written about a local hospital looking into the odd case of the cattle workers seemingly immune to smallpox, which is how the first vaccine was discovered. They might not realize it can be replicated for other diseases until they get a better handle on germ theory and a better understanding of how illnesses spread in general though.

Yes I have, but that's not the same as making an accepted practice : look at how early vaccination was fought at the time of initial discovery. On the other hand here there are microscopes so I might go for it...

 

[minifidel]

Yes I have, but that's not the same as making an accepted practice : look at how early vaccination was fought at the time of initial discovery. On the other hand here there are microscopes so I might go for it...

I can picture it becoming common practice in the Legions, but strongly resisted by wider society until a plague rips through civilian areas but leaves inoculated legionaries and auxiliaries unscathed.

 

[Donald Reaver]

There is the right way to do something, then there is the wrong way to do something, then there is the legionary way.

 

[Neko Tamo]

I do not think you should be afraid of technological progress @Hecatee since you have set its roots up quite well, in fact not having it or having it stall in an amazing manner would be the strange thing at this point. Steam engine was an idea known to the ancients and them utilizing it is not an outrageous thought, plus the use of it was stalled quite a bit by metallurgy not being up to snuff which was reasonable. But now other branches of science are catching up. Truth is the scientific and industrial revolutions are far more about a change in thinking than thanks to any single invention. You could see massive technological improvement start before the Bronze Age Collapse provided they realized the values of empiricism and rejected dogma which are admittedly tall philosophical orders, but even incrementally moving towards more rationalism and less mysticism in state running nets you comparative advantages over rivals so it is not impossibly hard to get the snowball going. But once it gets going boy does it get going, and to me the greater challenge is not having this super!Rome just steamroll the world 'cos it by all rights should be come crazy strong in 2-3 centuries.

 

[minifidel]

I do not think you should be afraid of technological progress @Hecatee since you have set its roots up quite well, in fact not having it or having it stall in an amazing manner would be the strange thing at this point. Steam engine was an idea known to the ancients and them utilizing it is not an outrageous thought, plus the use of it was stalled quite a bit by metallurgy not being up to snuff which was reasonable. But now other branches of science are catching up. Truth is the scientific and industrial revolutions are far more about a change in thinking than thanks to any single invention. You could see massive technological improvement start before the Bronze Age Collapse provided they realized the values of empiricism and rejected dogma which are admittedly tall philosophical orders, but even incrementally moving towards more rationalism and less mysticism in state running nets you comparative advantages over rivals so it is not impossibly hard to get the snowball going. But once it gets going boy does it get going, and to me the greater challenge is not having this super!Rome just steamroll the world 'cos it by all rights should be come crazy strong in 2-3 centuries.

And the example of the Chinese Empire is pretty eloquent: they developed printing, crossbows, and gunpowder anywhere between 10 and 7 centuries before Renaissance Europe.

 

[jwgview]

I must confess that I'm not good at maths so I don't dare go on that minefield !

Ah, but what about the progression that math gives the world? Improved astronomical calculations which leads to better map making and naval navigation. Accurate measurements leads to improved metallurgy and construction blueprints. Bookkeping leads to statistics leads to charts leads to food and tax policies.