Hadrian's Consolidation - reboot

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Hecatee, May 16, 2016.

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  1. Ramontxo Believes San Mames is Heaven Donor

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    I have just reach this point after reading through your incredible work. I just hope you keep on with this... Thanks a lot for your time and effort in the making of this.
     
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  2. Ramontxo Believes San Mames is Heaven Donor

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    Now you have a week or two to post another three years of new installments for me to read...
     
  3. Hecatee Traveller of the pasts

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    haha no, that's usually not how this works :p I try to post regularly, on a monday weekly basis, around 1 A4 page of new content :) on the plus side you get to take part to the discussion with everyone else !
     
  4. Ramontxo Believes San Mames is Heaven Donor

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    So I will try...thanks a lot..
     
  5. Shogun Well-Known Member

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    I don't see the need for conquering the whole Danish peninsula when the Romans could just build the equivalent of Hadrian's Wall across the mouth at the narrowest point they can reach (perhaps the OTL location for the Danevirke), and guard the coasts along either side to the modern-day Oder frontier.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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  6. Neko Tamo Well-Known Member

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    Actually I agree with you, partly. It still leaves the question of how good ancient Scandinavians were at seafairing which no one has been able to answer by now. But from the newest update it seems Romans are conquering the entire penninsula which will lead to the problems I've outlined. Though these ancient names used leave me a bit confused and waiting on Hecate for confirmation that it is Danish penninsula that is being taken.
     
  7. Dathi THorfinnsson Daði Þorfinnsson

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  8. Hecatee Traveller of the pasts

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    Yes we're talking about the Danish peninsula, and the emperor is besieging an earlier and larger than OTL Danevirke that goes all the way to the North Sea in the west, using the Treene river as moat. The Romans are currently focussing on the area near Hedeby with a fleet bringing troops to the north of the western section to bottle the barbarians in...

    The main strategic concern right now for the Romans is to improve the safety of the amber trade. I go from the position that the Danes are not yet the famous seafarers they became OTL and that Rome won't try to attack the islands, in part because they hope not to need to thanks to a canal at the basis of the Jutland peninsula using the existing river route Eider - Treene - Rheider Au (tributary of the Treene) - Schlei

    Of course this could give them grief later on, but they will be moving the Rhine fleet to the area on a more permanent basis given that the Rhine has now become secure and putting the ships around the Jutland area allows roman intervention in the island if needed, they will make sure no big ship gets built... and roman merchants will be doing a lot of the trading while the local youth may decide to look for adventure by enrolling in the roman auxiliaries instead of going on a raid.
     
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  9. Manatee Active Member

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    Maybe there could be a earlier varangian guard?
     
  10. EmperorOfTheNorthSea Cnut? You haven't seen a REAL North Sea Empire

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    Well the Julio-claudian emperors had a German bodyguard. Ultimately the Varangian guard was an interesting piece of history but one that just happens and can't really come about purposefully.

    As for proto-vikings, I remember seeing somewhere that the ships the Saxons, Angles, and Jutes used to invade Britain with didn't even have any masts just oars.

    Haha I had a thought, I remember a thread talking about how Napoleon making a causeway to Britain and some reputable member said it was possible, do you think if raiding along the English channel becomes a problem like in the later empire the Romans could build a causeway from Calais to Dover? with some drawbridges for ships ofc. This could also become a massive troll on the Empire's part as blocking the currents would make the lands there inhospitable.

    Oh yeah has Scotland or Eire been conquered yet? I could imagine they would make some fine Auxilia to throw at the Persians.
     
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  11. Dathi THorfinnsson Daði Þorfinnsson

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    Slightly more feasible than Atlantropa, but t for far less gain.
     
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  12. EmperorOfTheNorthSea Cnut? You haven't seen a REAL North Sea Empire

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    Well there is the optical telegraph network ( though I imagine the costs would be prohibitive with northern European climates barring limited heliography on good days). Though even just horseback messages would speed communications immensely.

    Also the propaganda value, I imagine an emperor who could actually complete the endeavor would be popular beyond belief.

    Maybe once the Romans are more scientifically minded they could map the entire north sea region and get the idea blcoking it off might stabilize the weather? Or maybe they start pulling a dutch and start reclaiming land and realize the english channel isn't overly deep? Ofc this is assuming the Romans go industrial.

    Now that I'm thinking about the dutch how the heck did the romans pacify the swamp lands around the Frisii?
     
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  13. Hecatee Traveller of the pasts

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    Future update but in short not so difficult because

    1) limited population
    2) long time with subordinate Cheruscii kingdom before annexion
    3) the locals know what befel the other germanic tribes before them

    => a lot of acculturation/integration with a lot of roman citizenship through auxiliary service
     
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  14. EmperorOfTheNorthSea Cnut? You haven't seen a REAL North Sea Empire

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    Part of me thinks it might be more interesting to just have an unconquered peice of land smack middle of the Empire that no one wants to deal with. Sorta like the Seminole and their shenanigans.
     
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  15. Shogun Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what Hecatee's plans are for the British isles, but if expansion is still in the cards, then moving the Roman provincial capital from Londinium to Deva Victrix (modern-day Chester) is a prerequisite. It was built to serve as the capital of both Britannia and a conquered Ireland until plans changed and the focus of the empire moved from expansion and conquest to consolidation and entrenchment.
     
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  16. Fortuna The resident fascist

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    Will the desertification of north africa be stopped ittl? I just remembered that north africa was slowly turning to desert before its fate was finally sealed by the arabs when they brought goats and I was wondering with the improved canals and engineering and such of the romans if they would stop this process or even reverse it and make africa a bigger breadbasket for the empire than it was otl. The effects of a somewhat green north africa into the middle ages would be quite large
     
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  17. Threadmarks: Populonia, Etruria, September 245

    Hecatee Traveller of the pasts

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    Populonia, Etruria, September 245


    Thucer Leixu shoveled another lot of old iron scories into his wheelbarrow, which was about as full as it was going to be and still be in his capacity to move around. Living in the lower area of Populonia, the man did not have far to go. The whole area was covered with the remains of centuries of iron extraction from the raw stones brought over from the island nearby.

    From one of the oldest families of Populonia, Thucer had always lived in the city, in the shadow of the ruined temples of its acropolis. The temples showed how rich the city had been once, thanks to the iron trade : the island did not have enough trees to fuel the extraction of metal from ore, so the later had been carried to the beach of Populonia where powerful men had broken the ore into smaller bits that were then melted to extract iron.

    But the trade had declined, the mines had been emptied of their riches, and Populonia had become a sleepy fishermen town with only a single smith to carry on the glorious tradition of his forefathers. At least 20 generations of Leixu had worked metal in this place, and Thucer had kept the proud line and hoped his son would follow in his footsteps.

    The discovery he’d made a few months before would probably insure his fortune and that of his heirs for generations to come. Learning about the new types of furnaces, Thucer had built one and had thrown in some old skoria as his first test. To his amazement he’d seen a puddle of iron appear, much larger than what he’d expected. So much in fact that it had been almost twice as much iron as he would have gotten from that amount of ore with his old furnace !

    He’d melted more ore and had gotten the same result, and an iron of quality as had been proven by his tests of the metal. He’d been able to do both modern cast iron and traditionally worked objects, but with free iron ore ! He just had to ensure he had coal if possible, but even charcoal could do because the new furnace were more efficient than the ancient ones.

    Once he’d discovered the situation he’d covertly begun to buy as much of the area as possible, becoming the owner of a large part of the slag area. He now had centuries of already excavated ore at his disposal, without having to pay mining taxes or extraction costs ! Soon he’d be rich beyond measure. He’d already decided he’d rebuild the three temples of the acropolis to thank the gods and his ancestors for this unforeseen boon. Populonia was about to live again !
     
  18. Hecatee Traveller of the pasts

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    My pictures of Populonia are not yet online, but some background to this post : Populonia was an important iron working center of the Etruscan period, but they had a pretty bad ratio of iron extraction from the ore : only about 1/3 of the metal was extracted and the resulting slag was so huge in quantities that it actually buried the old necropolis at the foot of the hill on top of which the main settlement was built.
    The city, like most of Etruria, suffered during the social war, when Sylla punished the area very harshly indeed. Strabon and other authors already speak of the dilapidated state of the town in the 1st century AD, and we also have a late antique description that make it no more than a small village, if that at all...
    No need to say that the area is going to have a revival ITL ;)
     
  19. Alessandro Well-Known Member

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    Great new chapter, good job man!!!
     
  20. Neko Tamo Well-Known Member

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    So this Roman is called Tucker if my pronunciation of Classical Latin is correct :p
     
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