that's true if I remember correctly the first real Slavic states were founded by Vikings for example rurik the red set the foundations for the kievan rus and that was in the 860s. However it is interesting to think of how the Slavs will fit into everything later on. Also I've never heard of the cotini or bastarnae tribes if they're not German and also not Slavic what are they? Are they like the Basques and a remnant of the old Europeans from before the Indo-European invasions? Or have I misread your answer entirely.
Hadrian's Consolidation - reboot
- Thread starter Hecatee
- Start date
Actually Samo’s short lived in Central Europe was first. Ended with his death sometimes after 650. Prior to Kievan Rus there was already Moravian Empire which later brought Orthodox priests from Byzantium.
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Hecatee
Donor
The Bastarnae's are difficult to identify, ancient source are not sure wheter they were of Celtic or of Scytho-Sarmatian (and thus Iranian) origin, although modern research sometimes presents them as being a Germanic people.
The Cotini (also called Gotini) were a Celtic tribe, described as speaking a gaulish language, and known for working in mining and being forced to pay tribute to the Sarmatians and the Quadi
How about the Germanic tribes being pushed east due to the Roman Empire being more successful and pressuring them away. Then those displaced push on the tribes of the Scythians/Sarmatians who ask for Roman/Bosporian help. Enter close relations (as per OTL later campaign cooperation with Flavius Claudius Constantinus Augustus around 330AD) with the horse tribes, building the base for Cossacks. From there, use the rivers to go up to the Baltic and use the greater tech base to go east to the Pacific Ocean. Take Manchuria and presto, Russia. With a bit extra on top. Around 1000 AD would be cool ;-)
Oh I see, I had completely forgotten the Celts were a thing in mainland Europe since this timeline takes place in the 2nd century they never came to mind. Kinda sad how they ended up almost completely disappearing from Europe when at one point they dominated it.
Oh alright thanks for correcting me. As you can see my knowledge on Slavic history is scant especially in ancient times but I am right that Vikings set up the first (Slavic) states that Far East right?
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Near Carcasso, Gallia, May 174
Hecatee
Donor
Near Carcasso, Gallia, May 174
Marcus Tribanus Minor was once more walking on the large construction site of his canal. Work had been going for four years now, and he’d just received news that while his appointment as Procurator Rei Machinatori was about to conclude in a few months but he’d just received word that the Emperor had granted him a special procuratorship for five more years, with a specific budget outside of the rest of the provincial budget and power over every decision related to the canal, under direct supervision by the governor of the province, at his current salary.
Right now he’d come to inspect an invention one of his subordinate claimed would help with the digging in many sections of the canal. The contraption was somewhat inspired by the new heavy ploughs in use in the northern parts of Gaul, which were of less use in the south but had been reused here to cut the ground with a number of knife like vertical blades, that was then scraped by a large horizontal blade sending the soil into a kind of C-shaped bowl that acted as a reservoir for the scrapped soil. . When the bowl was full it could be lifted thanks to its handle, to dump the content in a low bed chariot set next to the machine and which would carry the soil a small distance away before coming back.
A team of horses could thus easily scrape large superficies, while soil-carrying chariots were always coming to take the soil. It was estimated that two chariots for each scraper would be enough. The result was digging going much faster than by hand in any ground where there were not too many rocks. There manual labor was required... The tool could even be adapted to the soil hardness : in soft soil the front blade could scrape deeper than in harder ones, so that the horses had always to provide the same kind of effort.
This scraper was also much easier to use than the large turf cutting mobile tower, which was difficult to move. With a number of those new scrapers the construction of the canal would be so much easier and cost so much less ! He just needed to find mules and horses in numbers large enough for a fleet of scrapers and soil carrying chariots…
But Tribanus Minor could also see the advantages of the tool to make new roads faster, or even help a military unit build new fortifications in a siege, although it was somewhat bulky to carry around in campaign…
Tribanus minor and his aide talked some more about what they had to do to make this system functional. They had to speak loudly because of all the noise in the area, but they were used to it : between the creaking of the water lifting chain, the noise of the digging and the sound of men and animals toiling, there was always a lot of background against which one had to raise his voice. The scrapper would mainly be adding some new sonorities to the place...
Marcus Tribanus Minor was once more walking on the large construction site of his canal. Work had been going for four years now, and he’d just received news that while his appointment as Procurator Rei Machinatori was about to conclude in a few months but he’d just received word that the Emperor had granted him a special procuratorship for five more years, with a specific budget outside of the rest of the provincial budget and power over every decision related to the canal, under direct supervision by the governor of the province, at his current salary.
Right now he’d come to inspect an invention one of his subordinate claimed would help with the digging in many sections of the canal. The contraption was somewhat inspired by the new heavy ploughs in use in the northern parts of Gaul, which were of less use in the south but had been reused here to cut the ground with a number of knife like vertical blades, that was then scraped by a large horizontal blade sending the soil into a kind of C-shaped bowl that acted as a reservoir for the scrapped soil. . When the bowl was full it could be lifted thanks to its handle, to dump the content in a low bed chariot set next to the machine and which would carry the soil a small distance away before coming back.
A team of horses could thus easily scrape large superficies, while soil-carrying chariots were always coming to take the soil. It was estimated that two chariots for each scraper would be enough. The result was digging going much faster than by hand in any ground where there were not too many rocks. There manual labor was required... The tool could even be adapted to the soil hardness : in soft soil the front blade could scrape deeper than in harder ones, so that the horses had always to provide the same kind of effort.
This scraper was also much easier to use than the large turf cutting mobile tower, which was difficult to move. With a number of those new scrapers the construction of the canal would be so much easier and cost so much less ! He just needed to find mules and horses in numbers large enough for a fleet of scrapers and soil carrying chariots…
But Tribanus Minor could also see the advantages of the tool to make new roads faster, or even help a military unit build new fortifications in a siege, although it was somewhat bulky to carry around in campaign…
Tribanus minor and his aide talked some more about what they had to do to make this system functional. They had to speak loudly because of all the noise in the area, but they were used to it : between the creaking of the water lifting chain, the noise of the digging and the sound of men and animals toiling, there was always a lot of background against which one had to raise his voice. The scrapper would mainly be adding some new sonorities to the place...
Hecatee
Donor
For those wondering, the contraption is a kind of Fresno scraper : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresno_scraper
The idea came to me from the 1632 universe
The next two weeks will be about institutions and cultural contacts, the two after that will be about policing the land...
The idea came to me from the 1632 universe
The next two weeks will be about institutions and cultural contacts, the two after that will be about policing the land...
Hecatee
Donor
I usually only post new chapter on monday, often in the morning (Brussels' time), although I may miss the window on the 27th of August as I'll be in southern France for a few days to see a number of exhibits, museums and archeological sites (Nice archeology museum, La Turbie monument of Augustus, Monaco exhibit of ancient Egyptian jewelry, Cannes archeology museum, Mougins Museum of Classical Art, Frejus archeological museum and various roman remains, Marseilles' 3 museums of archeology of the classical period, Nimes's new museum of Roman archeology)Thabks for the update! I'M constantly checking the page to be able to read the new post ASAP
I’ll wave back when I drive home Friday from half way between Orleans and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guédelon_Castle
Hecatee
Donor
I've been wanting to visit the castle for quite some time but at the speed they're going they'll have it finished before I get there (seing how I don't have a driving licence and am thus limited to public transports during my visits)
You still have to take into account all the road surfacing material as well, remember the roads are all covered in shaped stone that takes time and labor to make.
In all honesty how did the Romans become so good at innovating in this TL. Cause OTL they were not good at it. They adapted a lot of other people's stuff and particularly by the 2nd century, there was very little creativity. Empires have a habit of stifling creativity, Rome was no exception. While a few innovations are fine, I'd like to ask what are the conditions in TTL that allowed so much innovation to emerge? It might have been elaborated before, but it would help to have it restated. I know a little about Military Academies, and technical engineering training introduced, and officials competing to innovate and share their novel inventions, but it still doesn't explain so much innovation springing up in every corner of the empire seemingly unrelated to these developments.
Hecatee
Donor
Well quite a few of the projects or innovations mentionned in the story so far have been OTL discoveries made more widespread (The trevery reaper, most hydraulic inventions -see Barbegual mill to see a large roman hydraulic complex of industrial proportions which worked from the late 1st century to the 3rd century-, even the windmills if one follows books such as Cesare Rossi, Flavio Russo and Ferruccio Russo's "Ancient Engineers' Inventions", 2009, ISBN: 978-90-481-2252-3). Others have been pure luck for the cases where there was no reason it could not have happened earlier : the stirrups for instance, initially just to help a wounded soldier mount his horse and then spreading, or the cast iron born from a smithy accident.
Then comes the academy, and that helps to disperse knowledge and bring the main cities of the empire all to the same level of knowledge, which is something that did not happen at the time, but also helps develop a new attitude toward mechanics and experimental science, but mostly based on elder, hellenistic, inventions. Thus for instance the experiments with steam engine, which are simply re-using inventions from a century before and thinkering with them until something new happens. And while is seems short for you the readers, there have been 40 years of change now, and patronage of the elite that see a new way to compete through those discoveries, in some way similar to Italian Renaissance nobles.
The academy also bring a scale which is larger than anything otl in this timeframe: even with an output of a few dozen candidates a year (initially training some 30 candidates/year, expended to twice that about a decade later), it means that the academy has trained some 2000 people by now, about half of which are active at anytime either in public or private capacity.
Between the boost in productivity brought about by the increased mecanization (and once more they are mostly just building OTL inventions but more of them) and the prestige war of the elites, many people see a good reason why investing in technology is a good idea. Add philosophical justification through contestation of Aristotle and some intelligent men agreeing to admit they were wrong and who try to set things right (Claudius Ptolemy, 10 years ago in story time), and you help remove an important issue.
This does not mean we have a full industrial revolution in our hands. If you looked at the documentary on the water raising system, you've seen how many days were spent just forging the metallic links that held the buckets together. It is a non trivial investment in time and materials, but it is being done. But overall there has not yet been a real agricultural revolution, nor are issues related to transport of goods solved yet : it would require either more canals or trains...
That is my vision at least, but I'm open to discussion/challenge/other opinions !
The idea that Empires always stifle innovation is weird anyway - China has been an Empire of one Dynasty or another for most of its history and I don't see anyone claiming they weren't creative and inventive. Or the British Empire, which certainly produced many inventions. It's more of a cultural mindset and values that decide how inventive a given polity is. If there is interest and prestige in inventing things, people will.