Had von Kluge arrested Hitler shortly after November 1942?

It's going to be hard to frame Von Kluge as a communist/democrat/whatever...at the very least Germany would lack a proper scapegoat for Hitler 2.0 to blame.

Never underestimate the blatant lies and outright imperviousness to facts that makes conspiracy theories work. After all a superficial look at 1918 would make it extremely impossible to see the leap from "Commie Jews killed Germany" to the armistice in October that the first iteration had. The second one would probably claim that von Kluge was a snooty aristocrat who didn't see how actually close to the outright annihilation of the Slavs WWII was in 1942, and if he'd only not betrayed Hitler and the Nazi cause that cause was surely going to relieve Stalingrad, the psychological effects of which lead to Soviet collapse.

We're talking ATL conspiracy theories. What grounding in facts do they ever have? There doesn't have to be one, just enough plausibility to make it somewhat swallowable to the right kind of person.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
The thing is, it isn't enough for von Kluge to arrest Hitler; he's too popular. He'll have to be killed.

Of course god know's what this means back home. Himmler is reviled but commands the loyalty of the SS, Heydrich is dead,
and Göring disgraced (though Hitler's legal successor as Führer). I don't recall Goebbels or Himmler caring for each other at all, but I could see them closing ranks against the traitors.

Ugh, this is gonna be such a mess...
 
The thing is, it isn't enough for von Kluge to arrest Hitler; he's too popular. He'll have to be killed.

Of course god know's what this means back home. Himmler is reviled but commands the loyalty of the SS, Heydrich is dead,
and Göring disgraced (though Hitler's legal successor as Führer). I don't recall Goebbels or Himmler caring for each other at all, but I could see them closing ranks against the traitors.

Ugh, this is gonna be such a mess...

Pretty much accurate, yes.
 
Never underestimate the blatant lies and outright imperviousness to facts that makes conspiracy theories work. After all a superficial look at 1918 would make it extremely impossible to see the leap from "Commie Jews killed Germany" to the armistice in October that the first iteration had. The second one would probably claim that von Kluge was a snooty aristocrat who didn't see how actually close to the outright annihilation of the Slavs WWII was in 1942, and if he'd only not betrayed Hitler and the Nazi cause that cause was surely going to relieve Stalingrad, the psychological effects of which lead to Soviet collapse.

We're talking ATL conspiracy theories. What grounding in facts do they ever have? There doesn't have to be one, just enough plausibility to make it somewhat swallowable to the right kind of person.

At the same time, little's going to change from the OTL occupation of Germany, apart from Germany being much more intact (in the west at least), there won't be much chance for a Nazi revival to get off the ground.
 
It would depend on the execution. Simply arresting Hitler would solve nothing, save make everything even more chaotic. Operation Valkyrie, OTOH, would be perfect. To wit, if Kluge could kill Hitler and then blame it on the SS, then bingo. A sliver of chance of successful coup.
 
Many of the conspirators believed Hitler should be arrested and tried, maybe the way many dictators are or have been tried after a successful revolution. But arrest alone isn't going to be enough, how to maintain Hitler in custody, prepare for a trial, have the trial, while trying to run the government and what to do with the rest of the Nazi hierachy?

So, arrest only? Agree with most of the consensus above. However, a summary trial followed by execution? This is more interesting. On what and whose authority? and what does Göring do? He is the "named successor," does a military dictatorship take over, with Hermann as the nominal head of said military government? He wasn't too keen on invading the USSR and doesn't particularly like Himmler, he is minister w/o portfolio and if memory serves me, president of the (for its usefulness) Reichstag. Göring seems a bit of an enigma here, and was on the list of possible governments in other coup/conspiracies. Given the choice of Army vs SS, I think he as a highly decorated soldier of the FIrst War, would side with the Army. I don't think there is any question von Kluge is arrested and tried for assassination, and maybe he gets life imprisonment instead of death? And in 1948 he is pardoned?

There was another thread about assassination in 1940. I still think "Hitler executed, Göring seeks armistice with UK" will be on the front of the New York Times.
 
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