Exactly as the title suggests, I'm curious about the future implications of Habsburg Artois and Franche-Comté after 1713.
Tell me what you think!
 

Philip

Donor
This would require a total victory for the Habsburgs -- how is that achieved?

I'm not sure the British and the Dutch would accept it. It's likely to drive the British, Dutch, and French into an anti-Habsburg alliance.
 
This is actually quite possible. There was a moment in the war when France's fortunes were at a very low point and Louis XIV was prepared to make a lot of concessions. One allied demand was that he give up all of France's conquests since 1648, and he apparently was willing to accept this. But then the allies demanded that he use his own troops to remove his grandson from the throne in Madrid and this was too much for him to accept, so the war continued (and eventually turned more in France's favor).

I suspect future French kings are not going to take the loss of those provinces so easily.
 
This would require a total victory for the Habsburgs -- how is that achieved?

I'm not sure the British and the Dutch would accept it. It's likely to drive the British, Dutch, and French into an anti-Habsburg alliance.
I figured, that in the case of a much clearer Habsburg victory(, maybe they could hold onto Aragon), the Habsburgs would be much harder to convince to drop their claims on Spain. To counter this, the above specified regions would be added to the OTL compromise.
This is the base idea.

Another possibility is the exact contrary. The Habsburgs struggled much more, while overcoming the French, than OTL. The maritime republics fearing, that the Habsburgs are not strong enough to properly oppose the French, they support the Habsburg attempt to reclaim said regions.

You can go with either sceniario, or you can think about another sceniario yourself.
 

Philip

Donor
Habsburgs would be much harder to convince to drop their claims on Spain. To counter this, the above specified regions would be added to the OTL compromise.

Not going to happen. Louis is not going to trade French lands for Spanish. You will need a complete defeatof France. Once it becomes clear that Austria will be taking French lands, the Dutch are going to stop supporting them. Once the Austrians are done reconquering lands lost to the French, surely, from the Dutch POV, Austria will try to retake the rest of the Netherlands.

As for the English/UK, how do you sell this to Parliament? British troops are treasure wasted to enrich Austria?

The Habsburgs struggled much more, while overcoming the French, than OTL. The maritime republics fearing, that the Habsburgs are not strong enough to properly oppose the French,

OTL, WoSS finished with a Bourbon on the Spanish throne. Austria was granted the S. Netherlands a consolation that served British and Dutch purposes. I'm not sure you can say Austria overcame France OTL. That being said, if Austria is able to achieve Spain ITTL, then it is obvious to everyone that they don't need further help.
 
It's possible, if the Alliance did not demand Louis XIV use his own troops to remove his own grandson. That would require France going to war against Spain.

And that was after France was willing to pay for removing his own grandson and giving all the territories he had gained since 1648!!

The Alliance was stupid to insist on such an unreasonable demand. They snatched defeat from the jaws of total victory!
 
Once it becomes clear that Austria will be taking French lands, the Dutch are going to stop supporting them. Once the Austrians are done reconquering lands lost to the French, surely, from the Dutch POV, Austria will try to retake the rest of the Netherlands.

As for the English/UK, how do you sell this to Parliament? British troops are treasure wasted to enrich Austria?

Except in 1709, the Alliance as a whole, including England, the Netherlands, and Austria, was willing to give the entire Spanish inheritance, including Southern Netherlands, to Archduke Charles. And it even demanded that all the territories taken since 1648 be given back by France, which included Franche Comte and Artois to the Habsburgs.

Louis XIV agreed.

Then they demanded he use French troops to eject his own grandson...

Anyway, it's moot, since nobody expected Joseph I to die without a son and leave the Empire to Charles.

So assuming that they don't demand Louis XIV to eject his own grandson, the war would end in 1709 or 1710, and the Spanish inheritance goes to Charles.

Everything is peachy for the alliance. France is humbled and reduced to it's 1648 borders.

Then suddenly, Joseph I dies without sons in 1711, and Charles becomes Holy Roman Emperor and Archduke of Austria, King of Austria, etc...

Would there be war?

I don't think so. All the combatants would be exhausted from almost 20 years of continuous warfare from 1689. They'll grumble, but after having fought so hard for "Carlos III" to be king of Spain, they would be too tired to fight him being Charles VI, Emperor.

So we have the recreation of the Empire of Charles V!
 
Would there be war?

Probably not immediately, but at a later time it is likely (actualy almost certainly). Interestingly it would probably mean, as said, that the alliances will be very different. I certainly could see England and the Dutch republic realigning themselves with France again. Austro-Spain certainly seems to be the bigger threat now.
 
Probably not immediately, but at a later time it is likely (actualy almost certainly). Interestingly it would probably mean, as said, that the alliances will be very different. I certainly could see England and the Dutch republic realigning themselves with France again. Austro-Spain certainly seems to be the bigger threat now.

I agree, but I would give it ten to twenty years for a full scale war to break out. The combatants need time to recover.
 
I'm not sure the British and the Dutch would accept it. It's likely to drive the British, Dutch, and French into an anti-Habsburg alliance.

Why? The British have no direct interests in those areas directly. Austria-Spain might be more powerful than France, but one repeatedly screws England over and the other doesn't (at THIS point in history). A few concessions in Africa or letting England keep some land that Anne's forces occupied from the Bourbon Spain might satisfy both parties (as long as it's not Spain propor or the cash cow Cuba). Think about it, from Charles VI's point of view, it is better to get Spain, Italy, and it's most proposerous colonies than none at all. Plus there is the succession issue. Austria will have to court allies since the Holy Roman Emperor can't be a girl.

There is no real need to play the balance of power game if the more powerful continental power keeps making friendly overtures to England and promises to stay out of their sphere of influence. Once the Hannovers ascend, George I and his father know they only got to be Electors thanks to the Hapsburgs (heck, they wouldn't even be noblemen with minor titles but nobles without land).

If Austria behaves bellicose towards the Dutch and the English (later British), an anti-Hapsburg coalition may form. If the Hapsburgs play their cards right, they should be able to hold onto everything. They won Spain and Artois. One nervous ally that helped them needs to be reassured. The ascension of a grateful Protestant German house on Britain's throne can seal the deal. I'm not saying this is inevitable, but it is more likely than an anti-Hapsburg coalition (which is still in the cards, but not the most likely outcome)
 
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