Habsburgs never inherit Spain

Say, that, Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castille have a son and, thus, the Habsburgs never inherit Spain. How does this effect Spain, Europe and the world? Could the Netherlands be part of an alternate Germany?
 
Say, that, Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castille have a son and, thus, the Habsburgs never inherit Spain. How does this effect Spain, Europe and the world? Could the Netherlands be part of an alternate Germany?
Netherlands will likely stay united and I can not see any valid reason for keeping Netherlands (who will stay united under Habsburg rule), Austria and Bohemia outside ATL Germany (who will likely be united much earlier than OTL by the Habsburg emperors)...

Ferdinand and Isabella had a son (Juan) who died without heirs (a stillborn girl was born after his death) and an elder daughter (Isabella) who had a son (Miguel) who died in infancy. So either Ferdinand and Isabella had another son (maybe ATL Catalina is born as Alfonso) or Juan and/or Isabella live longer and left heirs who will rule Spain after the death of Isabella and Ferdinand
 
Netherlands will likely stay united and I can not see any valid reason for keeping Netherlands (who will stay united under Habsburg rule), Austria and Bohemia outside ATL Germany (who will likely be united much earlier than OTL by the Habsburg emperors)...

Ferdinand and Isabella had a son (Juan) who died without heirs (a stillborn girl was born after his death) and an elder daughter (Isabella) who had a son (Miguel) who died in infancy. So either Ferdinand and Isabella had another son (maybe ATL Catalina is born as Alfonso) or Juan and/or Isabella live longer and left heirs who will rule Spain after the death of Isabella and Ferdinand

If nationalism eventually hits off in this timeline, would Bohemia separate from Germany, since it is Slavic?
 
If nationalism eventually hits off in this timeline, would Bohemia separate from Germany, since it is Slavic?
No way. Bohemia’s history was too strongly tied to the Holy Roman Empire for thinking seriously to a separation after the Habsburg united Germany including them
 
In general terms, the Low Countries remain an Austrian possession instead of a Spanish one. Without the silver and gold from Spain Charles V would have a very though time financing his multiple campaigns against the Ottomans and the French. It's likely that the borders would fall back more than IOTL. Spain would continue it's traditional anti-French policy, remaining as an English ally and likely joining Austria in some or other war against the Franco-Ottoman alliance. These wars would see a result roughly similar to IOTL. The son of the catholic monarchs would likely be very catholic as he was supposedly educated by Isabella and would attempt to mediate peace with France to focus on the Ottomans, which wouldn't really work. Without Spain's wealth and army wasted in northern Europe and with the firm conviction of continuing the Reconquista, the Spanish would likely crush the Ottomans in Algeria and Tunis. Ottoman attempts to retake these areas would likely fail and we may see a Battle of Lepanto happening in Lampedusa instead. About the Anglo-Spanish wars, that completely depends on how marriages happen with the Trastamaras in this ATL which is completely umpredictable. Who knows, maybe England could remain Catholic anyways.
 
I personally like better a Ferdinand of Austria inhereit Spain and marry Isabella of Portugal scenario but the one in which Juan’s daughter (call her Isabella, Mariana or Margarita) survive and marry a surviving Miguel de la Paz and rule with him on a Kingdom of Spain who include Castile, Aragon and Portugal is the second best
 
No way. Bohemia’s history was too strongly tied to the Holy Roman Empire for thinking seriously to a separation after the Habsburg united Germany including them

But, how would this Germany deal with its Slavic minority, concentrated in Bohemia?
 

krieger

Banned
No way. Bohemia’s history was too strongly tied to the Holy Roman Empire for thinking seriously to a separation after the Habsburg united Germany including them

But if POD is Juan of Asturia living, it means that it is Catherine of Austria (not infertile Mary), who marries Louis II of Hungary who (despite being a retard) might have had a healthy children (he had a bastard IOTL), so Hungary and Bohemia would be tied to Poland and Lithuania once Sigismund II dies.
 

krieger

Banned
That's a hell of an Empire right there. From the Baltic to the Black Sea to the Adriatic. It probably wouldn't stay together all that long though.

If it is formed, there is no one from West who could seize a piece for himself. The collapse could come in the age of nationalism.
 
The collapse could come in the age of nationalism.

And then be an opportunity for Russia to do it's thing and expand into the vacuum at least so far. It's more likely that Poland would maintain it's independence in some form though, especially if Prussia is subdued or distracted. Maybe Hungary keeps some land as well.
 
That's a hell of an Empire right there. From the Baltic to the Black Sea to the Adriatic. It probably wouldn't stay together all that long though.

I'm inclined to believe it won't be maintained/is difficult. See Louis of Anjou, likewise Casimir IV. Now if we're we're talking cadet branches and a family compact, seems like a good deal.
 
Say, that, Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castille have a son and, thus, the Habsburgs never inherit Spain. How does this effect Spain, Europe and the world? Could the Netherlands be part of an alternate Germany?

It'd be interesting to see how this dynamic will affect the intricacies of the Italian wars and the holy Roman election of 1519?

It'd also be kind of funny if Maximilian I gives say only further Austria beyond Tyrol to Charles and the rest of Austria to Ferdinand and Ferdinand ends up King of Bohemia like OTL meanwhile Charles's line are the Dukes of Burgundy.

Charles probably weds Mary Tudor maybe? Might see a stronger reformation in Germany.
 
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The relations between Spain and Flanders and the revolution of the Comuneros are tightly related to the collapse of the Castillian clothing manufactures. Both of this events were accentuated by the dynastic union between the Spanish crowns and the Habsburg posessions.
Castile was the only country that produced in large quantities merino wool which was the main product used for Flemish clothing. The kings of Castile had favored the Mesta (an agrarian guild) in favor of agriculture to mass produce wool as it was in high demand. The importance of this cannot be understimated as the best wool of chritedom was produced in Castile.
The merchants from Burgos started buying large quantities of wool and exporting them to Flanders, while in Segovia and Cuenca the wool was bought for local production. At the end of Isabel's reign it seemed that the crown was going to favour the local manufacturers reducing the exports of wool to Flanders as in the end the trade balance was negative as the country exported raw goods and imported manufactured versions of the goods that had alredy been exported. Once the Habsburgs became the ruling the class in Spain they saw Flanders as an extension of their reign so they didn't believe that the trade between 2 of their territories should be restricted to harm one or another. This issue increased after the comunero revolt. The manufacturers supported the revolt while the merchants supported the king and after the revolution was shutdown the merchants of Burgos were given priority against the interest of the manufacturing cities as a reward for their support to the king.
With the inflation of silver production plummeted as it was cheaper to import from outside than to produce locally as inflation increased wages locally. Few manufacturing regions like Sevile and Granada managed to survive the hit (until the great plagues of the XVII century) but the Castillian cities (the pilars of the Spanish empire) entered in a process of decadence as their production became uncompetitive
 
But if POD is Juan of Asturia living, it means that it is Catherine of Austria (not infertile Mary), who marries Louis II of Hungary who (despite being a retard) might have had a healthy children (he had a bastard IOTL), so Hungary and Bohemia would be tied to Poland and Lithuania once Sigismund II dies.
Why you are so sure who Mary was the one infertile? Plus with a POD so early is pretty unlikely who Philip and Juana will have the same children in the same order and they will marry like OTL... With this POD maybe Anne of Foix will be less lucky than OTL and had only daughters or Vladislaus will die earlier without children
 

krieger

Banned
Why you are so sure who Mary was the one infertile? Plus with a POD so early is pretty unlikely who Philip and Juana will have the same children in the same order and they will marry like OTL... With this POD maybe Anne of Foix will be less lucky than OTL and had only daughters or Vladislaus will die earlier without children
Because Louis was the one, who had children out of wedlock. And if he had children, logic tells that Mary was the one infertile. If Anne de Foix died without children, Vladislaus's crown pass to Sigismund.
 

krieger

Banned
I'm inclined to believe it won't be maintained/is difficult. See Louis of Anjou, likewise Casimir IV. Now if we're we're talking cadet branches and a family compact, seems like a good deal.
Casimir IV wasn't a king of Hungary. It definitely would be difficult, but Russia was similarly multiethnic and somehow managed to stay in power.
 
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