Habsburg Russia?

An interesting scenario would have been if the Austrian emperor had also become tsar of Russia, maybe some time in the late 18th or early 19th century. This could have happened as a result of marital alliance and that the Romanov dynasty became extinct. It would have changed totally the dynamics on the Balkans, as in our time line Russia and Austria were the main opponents on the Balkan peninsula. How would France, Britain and Prussia react to such a new power? France and Britain were still rivals. Prussia would have good reasons to fear the alliance, being neighbour of both Russia and Austria. And the Ottomans would definitely ask Britain for help in case of a united russo-austrian attack. And how would it influence Greek independence? Would Britain have been more afraid that Greece might end up as a Russian puppet-state?
 
I don't see that happening with 19th century POD or if with any other POD too. Austria and Russia are culturally very different. Orthodox Russians hardly are very willingful accept Catholic ruler and Austrians hardly can accept Orthodox ruler. I don't see that happening.
 
I don't see that happening with 19th century POD or if with any other POD too. Austria and Russia are culturally very different. Orthodox Russians hardly are very willingful accept Catholic ruler and Austrians hardly can accept Orthodox ruler. I don't see that happening.

The Orthodox Ukrainians had Polish, Catholic kings.
 
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France, Britain and Prussia might have decided that an Austro-Russian Union would massively destabilise the European Balance of Power and may have allied to bring down the Habsburg beast. The Anglo-Franco-Prussian Alliance would have tried to find a Romanov heir to the Russian throne.
 
I have one thing to say about this subject, and about eighteenth century points of departure with respect to Russia in general.

We are talking about a country where a ruler left his realm not to any of his living children, or to any blood relative at all, but to his second wife, who was born an Estonian peasant and who was probably illiterate.

We are talking about a country where a foreign-born consort with no roots in the country to speak of overthrew her own husband and quite likely had him killed with the support of the army, and who then ruled until her death.

It is not just that Russia does not follow the same rules. With respect to eighteenth century Russia, our history is thoroughly ASB.

So, Habsburgs, why not? You could write a timeline in which Tsarist Russia is ruled by Sacagawea, and I would ask to hear the details before dismissing it out of hand.
 
I have one thing to say about this subject, and about eighteenth century points of departure with respect to Russia in general.

We are talking about a country where a ruler left his realm not to any of his living children, or to any blood relative at all, but to his second wife, who was born an Estonian peasant and who was probably illiterate.

We are talking about a country where a foreign-born consort with no roots in the country to speak of overthrew her own husband and quite likely had him killed with the support of the army, and who then ruled until her death.

It is not just that Russia does not follow the same rules. With respect to eighteenth century Russia, our history is thoroughly ASB.

So, Habsburgs, why not? You could write a timeline in which Tsarist Russia is ruled by Sacagawea, and I would ask to hear the details before dismissing it out of hand.

true enough.

but at the very least there should be a semi-logical progression to that point.

both Catherines were Lutheran, but they completely repudiated their pasts. for all intents and purposes, they became Russian and Orthodox.

also, the second one took a lot of pains to remodel herself from being a German princess. though she kept a German accent, she was fluent in Russian, and fought to get and keep her Russian crown.

this, and her weak, incompetent husband, made her the brilliant leader that she was.

unless a Habsburg were to do the same and abandon his/her family and faith for the Imperial Russian crown, i don't think it'd be plausible.

still, you're welcome to try. :):):) i'd love to see the Anglo-Prusso-French screams of agony when they see the Russian bear align itself with Austria.

also, i suggest stopping the Fourth Crusade. that was really a traumatic event in Orthodox history, which is one reason for Catholic-Orthodox enmity.
 
Oh, all this is true, and Habsburg inflexibility on religion is of course the stuff of legend. Don't get me wrong. It would be a heavy lift. ;)

And yes, I have no doubt that better relations between Austria and Russia would be one consequence of no Fourth Crusade. One of the many, many, many consequences of no Fourth Crusade. But getting rid of the Fourth Crusade for just that purpose is like, well, going to Paris to see what the Starbucks there are like. There are simply so many more wonderful things to do with that once one undertakes the trouble...


true enough.

but at the very least there should be a semi-logical progression to that point.

both Catherines were Lutheran, but they completely repudiated their pasts. for all intents and purposes, they became Russian and Orthodox.

also, the second one took a lot of pains to remodel herself from being a German princess. though she kept a German accent, she was fluent in Russian, and fought to get and keep her Russian crown.

this, and her weak, incompetent husband, made her the brilliant leader that she was.

unless a Habsburg were to do the same and abandon his/her family and faith for the Imperial Russian crown, i don't think it'd be plausible.

still, you're welcome to try. :):):) i'd love to see the Anglo-Prusso-French screams of agony when they see the Russian bear align itself with Austria.

also, i suggest stopping the Fourth Crusade. that was really a traumatic event in Orthodox history, which is one reason for Catholic-Orthodox enmity.
 
Ignoring the Balance of Power for a moment, this is a distinct genealogical possibility. From 1722 to 1797, the Emperor could leave the throne to whomever he wanted to, but in practice this always meant some sort of relative . Now, there is one scenario I can think of in the eighteenth century (19th is almost impossible): if Peter III dies before Paul is conceived, or if Paul dies young, then literally the only other descendants of Mikhail Romanov are the children of Grand Duchess Anna Leopoldovna, who have in prison all their lives. They are freed by Elizabeth/Catherine the Great and married off, but the sons, being maladjusted thanks to their peculiar upbringing, don't manage to conceive children (we also get insane-Tsar antics to make Ivan the Terrible beam with pleasure).

One or both of the daughters marries sons of Franz I and Maria Theresa, thereby creating a Habsburg-Lorraine cadet line a la Tuscany, or a personal union. If we stick with OTL dates of birth and death in that second scenario, the Austrian Emperor would inherit Russia in 1807, right in the middle of the Napoleonic Wars. I don't think there's any reason why a PoD in 1777 at the latest (birth of Alexander I, latest time for Paul to die without passing on his DNA) would have much effect on Paris in the 1790s and 1800s, but I could be wrong. Anyway, if we accept that Napoleon is still in charge of Europe, then a Britain-Austria-Russia coalition could possibly turn this into an Iron Curtain scenario.
 
so i'm really hoping for a Habsburg-Romanov branch that does well. maybe they become just as religious in Orthodoxy as in Catholicism.

in any case, Habsburgs on both thrones = Lots of dead Turks. which is always fun. maybe the taking of Constantinople becomes a rallying point for mending of Catholic-Orthodox relations.

and thus Russia FINALLY gets a warm-water port. :D:D:D
 
this, and her weak, incompetent husband, made her the brilliant leader that she was.

Actually Peter III was quite intelligent and progressive he could have potentially been the next Peter the Great. But his prussophilia screwed him over
 
Actually Peter III was quite intelligent and progressive he could have potentially been the next Peter the Great. But his prussophilia screwed him over

hm. how unfortunate for him, and how fortunate for her then. also he was outmaneuvered by Catherine. oh well.

what are Austria and Russia like politically? i know Russia is quite absolutist, but what about Austria?
 
hm. how unfortunate for him, and how fortunate for her then. also he was outmaneuvered by Catherine. oh well.

what are Austria and Russia like politically? i know Russia is quite absolutist, but what about Austria?

Depends on the ruler. Russia was pretty absolutist except for Alexander

Austrian tended to be very conservative with the more reform minded people getting killed all the time (Max, FF, etc.)
 
It's possible for a Hapsburg to inherit the Russian crown, as long as his mother was the Romanov heiress. But forget about the personal union of two crowns.
 
hm. how unfortunate for him, and how fortunate for her then. also he was outmaneuvered by Catherine. oh well.

what are Austria and Russia like politically? i know Russia is quite absolutist, but what about Austria?

Peter III was too German and way too prusso-phile.
 

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I don't see that happening with 19th century POD or if with any other POD too. Austria and Russia are culturally very different. Orthodox Russians hardly are very willingful accept Catholic ruler and Austrians hardly can accept Orthodox ruler. I don't see that happening.
Pull a Catherine, let the Austrian ruler's second son convert convert and take over the throne after his death.
 
There's actually a relatively easy way to do this. Grand Duchess Alexandra Pavlovna (eldest daughter of Emperor Paul) was married to a fourth son of the Holy Roman Emperor, Leopold II. There was a very real fear when she was pregnant that the baby would be a boy, and lead the secession of Hungary from the Austrian monarchy (since Alexandra and her hubby were very popular in Hungary, more so than the emperor and empress). However, unfortunately (or fortunately) the baby was a girl, named Alexandrine, but neither child nor the mother survived the birth.

Let Alexandrine be born as Archduke Josef Alexander, and survive; then somehow kill of Grand Dukes Nikolai and Mikhail before they can have children, and bam! the nearest legitimate heir to the Russian Empire when Alexander I or Constantine I dies is an Austrian archduke.
 
Also, on a more serious note than my earlier post, didn't Sigismund Vasa in his time as king of Poland make an attempt to take the throne of Muscovy for himself or a relative? If that succeeds (which is a very big if) then a marriage to a Habsburg becomes downright likely.
 
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