Habsburg Poland?

I read some Polish history some time ago. As far as I remember there was at least once a distinct possibility that Poland-Lithuania could have ended up with a Habsurg king (late 16th century as far as I remember). It is interesting to speculate about what would have been the consequences. Would it have meant that Poland would have survived as a country? Would it eventually have become part of an Austrian empire? What would have been the consequences for the rise of Russia as a great power? I would assume it would have made it more difficult for Russia to expand into Ukraine? How would it influence the balance of powers? I assume Prussia and France would ally with Russia against the Habsburgs, but what about Britain? Britain has a history of allying with the German state that were an enemy of France, and France chose the weaker of the two main German states in order to weaken Germany in general. Britain therefore ended up allying with the strongest German state, which here would mean the Habsburgs. What about the Ottoman Empire? It seems like the Habsburgs would be their most dangerous opponent, while Russia would not have posed such a danger as in our time line. I assume therefore that they would ally with Russia, Prussia and France. Any thoughts?
 
Poland-Lithuania and Austria were already two large multi-ethnic states. To combine them into one unified entity could prove too much. More probable IMO would be a dynastic union, like between Austria and Spain.

The possibility that you write about happened during 1587, when Maximilian Habsburg was one of candidates in polish royal election. I don't know the history of this period well enough to tell what POD would be needed for him to get elected and how plausible it was at all, but note that, with P-L being elective monarchy at that time, even him becoming king of Poland didn't mean that the union would have continued after his death.
 
Poland-Lithuania and Austria were already two large multi-ethnic states. To combine them into one unified entity could prove too much. More probable IMO would be a dynastic union, like between Austria and Spain.

The possibility that you write about happened during 1587, when Maximilian Habsburg was one of candidates in polish royal election. I don't know the history of this period well enough to tell what POD would be needed for him to get elected and how plausible it was at all, but note that, with P-L being elective monarchy at that time, even him becoming king of Poland didn't mean that the union would have continued after his death.

As you say, both states had several ethnic groups, so why should it be a problem to add even some more? Many states have been even more multi-ethnic. Take for instance the Russian Empire.
 
Because between the death of Sigismund II and the coronation of Augustus II, Poland was in no mood to sit with a German king. Even Augustus II was only crowned because he got to Warsaw before the elected candidate (who was French, btw) did.

That said, there was a plan during WW1 to install some Habsburg archduke (I think from the Teschen branch) as king of Poland, and the Archduke Wilhelm as king of the Ukrainians.
 
In fact, Maximilian was actually elected by the Polish high nobles as king of Poland. The only reason why Báthory became the king instead of Maximilian is because he got there earlier to be crowned.

If Maximilian would have become king of Poland, that would mean an immediate war with the Turks and since the PLC was already at war with Muscovy, that would mean a two-front war, which is not nice.
But if Max pulls it out, getting a status quo with the Turks and even manages to take much of Livonia, that could result in a much more succesful Long Turkish War, maybe even to expulsion of Turks from a sizeable chunk of Hungary.
 
In fact, Maximilian was actually elected by the Polish high nobles as king of Poland. The only reason why Báthory became the king instead of Maximilian is because he got there earlier to be crowned.

If Maximilian would have become king of Poland, that would mean an immediate war with the Turks and since the PLC was already at war with Muscovy, that would mean a two-front war, which is not nice.
But if Max pulls it out, getting a status quo with the Turks and even manages to take much of Livonia, that could result in a much more succesful Long Turkish War, maybe even to expulsion of Turks from a sizeable chunk of Hungary.

Would it have been possible for Maximilian to make peace with Muscovy? What was the background for the war betwen PLC and Muscovy? I assume that they were fighting about land in current Ukraine, but it is several years since I read about this, so I do not remember the details.
 
Would it have been possible for Maximilian to make peace with Muscovy? What was the background for the war betwen PLC and Muscovy? I assume that they were fighting about land in current Ukraine, but it is several years since I read about this, so I do not remember the details.
Attempting that would probably have the Muscovites asking for large amounts of land, if only to see what they could get. I imagine it would go over poorly with the Poles and Lithuanians if the first thing the king did upon being coronated was to surrender.
 
Would it have been possible for Maximilian to make peace with Muscovy? What was the background for the war betwen PLC and Muscovy? I assume that they were fighting about land in current Ukraine, but it is several years since I read about this, so I do not remember the details.
It was the Livonian war, Russia, Poland, Sweden and even Denmark-Norway fought over the control of the rich, freshly detheocratised Livonia.
 
But if Max pulls it out, getting a status quo with the Turks and even manages to take much of Livonia, that could result in a much more succesful Long Turkish War, maybe even to expulsion of Turks from a sizeable chunk of Hungary.

Could he though? I know the Polish government was at times paralyzed by the Byzantine-routine of its policy making. So, might Max not end up having to grant concessions to the Polish nobility in order to get them to agree to make peace - whether with the Ottomans or the Russians?

And that sizeable chunk of Hungary - does it go to the Habsburgs or Poland or partitioned between them (I can't imagine the Poles are going to be dancing in the streets about wasting money/men on a piece of land they're not even getting to keep)?
 
Could he though? I know the Polish government was at times paralyzed by the Byzantine-routine of its policy making. So, might Max not end up having to grant concessions to the Polish nobility in order to get them to agree to make peace - whether with the Ottomans or the Russians?

And that sizeable chunk of Hungary - does it go to the Habsburgs or Poland or partitioned between them (I can't imagine the Poles are going to be dancing in the streets about wasting money/men on a piece of land they're not even getting to keep)?
One thing sure, Hungary belongs to Hungary, nobodí would get a chunk of that, but it would remain in Habsburg hands though.
 
One thing sure, Hungary belongs to Hungary, nobodí would get a chunk of that, but it would remain in Habsburg hands though.

How might the Habsburgs holding the Polish throne as well affect their control of the empire? And who would be a good candidate for Max to marry in the event that he does become king? (I think I read somewhere that a match with Anna Wasa was considered, but by then she had already converted to Protestantism)
 
How might the Habsburgs holding the Polish throne as well affect their control of the empire? And who would be a good candidate for Max to marry in the event that he does become king? (I think I read somewhere that a match with Anna Wasa was considered, but by then she had already converted to Protestantism)
The capital of the empire could be either Prague or Cracow, where it might be possible to maintain contact with all of the realms.

I don't know much about the marriage issue, but would he marry at all? Given that he died not so long after (some years) the Polish royal elections.
 
The capital of the empire could be either Prague or Cracow, where it might be possible to maintain contact with all of the realms.

I don't know much about the marriage issue, but would he marry at all? Given that he died not so long after (some years) the Polish royal elections.

As Cleopatra said to Caesar in some movie, "a man with no son is a man with no future". As to whether he would marry, Max was in a religious-military order IIRC, however, I could see the pope releasing him from a vow of chastity (if there was one) - considering how the nickname for the pope at the time was the "king of Spain's chaplain" or the "Habsburg's chaplain" - so that he could marry. Maybe he could even marry a girl - like Anna Wasa - closely related to the last Jagiellon king. He stood for election in 1587, died in 1618 - so twenty years would definitely be enough time that he could have a son who wouldn't be a minor at his death. @Svetonius21 actually did a list way back in 2013 where Max wins the election instead of Sigismund, and Poland gets ruled by the Habsburgs for the next century or so.
 
As Cleopatra said to Caesar in some movie, "a man with no son is a man with no future". As to whether he would marry, Max was in a religious-military order IIRC, however, I could see the pope releasing him from a vow of chastity (if there was one) - considering how the nickname for the pope at the time was the "king of Spain's chaplain" or the "Habsburg's chaplain" - so that he could marry. Maybe he could even marry a girl - like Anna Wasa - closely related to the last Jagiellon king. He stood for election in 1587, died in 1618 - so twenty years would definitely be enough time that he could have a son who wouldn't be a minor at his death. @Svetonius21 actually did a list way back in 2013 where Max wins the election instead of Sigismund, and Poland gets ruled by the Habsburgs for the next century or so.
Wait, what? I was talking about Emperor Maximilian II, not that Maximilian.
 
I think Max could marry OTL Sigismund's wife Anna, daughter of his uncle Charles of Styria. All potential brides with closer ties to Jagiellons (Anna Vasa and Brunswick girls if there are any marriageable) are protestants.
 
I think Max could marry OTL Sigismund's wife Anna, daughter of his uncle Charles of Styria. All potential brides with closer ties to Jagiellons (Anna Vasa and Brunswick girls if there are any marriageable) are protestants.

And Sigismund - as only king of Sweden - can marry Christine of Holstein as was originally planned OTL. He refused her because his sister couldn't/wouldn't marry an archduke OTL, here, Austria seems less likely to want to give an archduchess to a foreign crown, especially one that could threaten their hold on Poland. Ought to make for interesting butterflies - no Gustaf Adolf TTL.
 
Poland-Lithuania and Austria were already two large multi-ethnic states. To combine them into one unified entity could prove too much. More probable IMO would be a dynastic union, like between Austria and Spain.

The possibility that you write about happened during 1587, when Maximilian Habsburg was one of candidates in polish royal election. I don't know the history of this period well enough to tell what POD would be needed for him to get elected and how plausible it was at all, but note that, with P-L being elective monarchy at that time, even him becoming king of Poland didn't mean that the union would have continued after his death.
Oops, my bad. I thought the POD proposed was Archduke Maximilian III becoming king of Poland in '87.

Maybe @Eivind can clarify

It is a long time since I read this, but I believe Rudi Maxer is right above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_III,_Archduke_of_Austria
 
Top