Gwenllian of Wales

What would happen if a loyal servant managed to spirit away Gwenllian of Wales either just after her fathers death, or just after the death of her uncle, hence keeping a legal heir to Wales alive and out of reach from the English?

First question would be, where to take her to raise her ... Brittany?, second question would be what would her survival and breeding somewhere (marrying into a noble/royal family somewhere) do to English hold over Wales? That with her claim becoming a convenient vehicle for any wars against England, most likely in the hands of the French, for raising Welsh rebels.
 
What would happen if a loyal servant managed to spirit away Gwenllian of Wales either just after her fathers death, or just after the death of her uncle, hence keeping a legal heir to Wales alive and out of reach from the English?

First question would be, where to take her to raise her ... Brittany?, second question would be what would her survival and breeding somewhere (marrying into a noble/royal family somewhere) do to English hold over Wales? That with her claim becoming a convenient vehicle for any wars against England, most likely in the hands of the French, for raising Welsh rebels.

Welsh kingship travelled almost exclusively in the male line. Rhodri Mawr and Gruffydd ap Llywellyn (sp?) are the only guys who spring to mind who inherited Welsh states through their mothers (Gwynedd and Deheubarth respectively). So a baby girl is basically useless until she marries and has sons, at which time the husband or son could get a load of mercenaries and restart the rebellion. Basically we're talking 1300 at the earliest, and at that point the great castles of Edward I are largely complete - Madog's rebellion in 1294 shows how outmatched the native Welsh were when faced with state-of-the-art fortifications. And after that the next time any Welshmen felt able and willing to rebel was in the 1360s under Owain Lawgoch, so Madog's failure left a long shadow of reluctance.

So basically she'd have to marry a great continental aristocrat who can conquer Wales with his own forces if need be. Her existence wouldn't have any real significance politically unless that happened - remember there were other claimants throughout the 1300s who had an arguably better claim to the throne, and the English weren't particularly perturbed by any of them. Compare the Yorkist exiles in the early 1500s, just wandering around the courts of Europe and never getting any closer to regaining their patrimony.
 
Welsh kingship travelled almost exclusively in the male line. Rhodri Mawr and Gruffydd ap Llywellyn (sp?) are the only guys who spring to mind who inherited Welsh states through their mothers (Gwynedd and Deheubarth respectively). So a baby girl is basically useless until she marries and has sons, at which time the husband or son could get a load of mercenaries and restart the rebellion. Basically we're talking 1300 at the earliest, and at that point the great castles of Edward I are largely complete - Madog's rebellion in 1294 shows how outmatched the native Welsh were when faced with state-of-the-art fortifications. And after that the next time any Welshmen felt able and willing to rebel was in the 1360s under Owain Lawgoch, so Madog's failure left a long shadow of reluctance.

So basically she'd have to marry a great continental aristocrat who can conquer Wales with his own forces if need be. Her existence wouldn't have any real significance politically unless that happened - remember there were other claimants throughout the 1300s who had an arguably better claim to the throne, and the English weren't particularly perturbed by any of them. Compare the Yorkist exiles in the early 1500s, just wandering around the courts of Europe and never getting any closer to regaining their patrimony.

This indeed.
Though if John obtains the Crown of Ireland shortly before England and passes it onto his second son Richard, who then has a surviving heir then Edwards cousin could be a reasonable rival.
This is assuming that Richard is able to stay independent and has both the strength and will to do so - he may be too busy cementing control over Ireland to worry about Wales
 
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