Gustav III isn’t assassinated

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Aye, so if Gustav III survives for longer and well into his son's adulthood, he might be able to change that?
     
  2. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Not sure. But he will ensure Gustav IV marries Alexandra Pavlovna (rather than the younger guy's storming out of St. Petersburg). I figure Gustav III will probably not be as perturbed by the bride staying Orthodox as his son was. IIRC, Maria Pavlovna wasn't obliged to convert when she married Prince Vilhelm n the next century (although, TBF, he wasn't the king, so there might have been some leeway).
     
  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Hmm interesting and of course, I do assume that Gustav III would have the more intimidating aspect over his son as well
     
  4. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    How so?
     
  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I mean from what I've read of the man, he does seem to be quite the political heavyweight. He single handedly managed to bring back absolute monarhcy where his mother and father failed. I imagine that reputation is going to terrify anyone
     
  6. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much.
     
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  7. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Quite interesting how his son turned out so different
     
  8. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    I think his son turned out as different because everyone wanted to make sure to avoid a repeat of Gustav III/Carl XII. Perhaps we might even see a Gustavian Era with Gustav III, IV and V all being reasonably good/competent/strong monarchs.
     
  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh I would love that. Sweden might regain some glory then, and be stable aha
     
  10. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what glory and the Swedes were pretty stable - all things considered - OTL under Jean Bernadotte. I mean, sure, they lost Finland to Russia but they got Norway from Denmark. They had a monarch who had international prestige Etc etc.
     
  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    This is very true. Man I do wonder how this effects Sweden long term
     
  12. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Strangely, it might affect France more (at first). Gustav III had met Louis XVI and Antoinette (according to Nagel, he'd even joked about formalizing the Franco-Swedish alliance by wedding Gustav IV to Madame Royal - it's unlikely, but it could be interesting to her wedding another Bourbon which was the only considerations during her parents' lifetime). He was personal friends with Count Fersen. I could definitely see him doing more to get Louis XVI/Antoinette out of France than what either Regent Carl or Antoinette's own family did.
    That said, the Flight to Varennes was in June 1791, Gustav was murdered in March 1792. Fersen tried to enlist various monarchs' aid for Louis/Antoinette thereafter, but nobody was willing to get involved AFAIK. Leopold II died two weeks before Gustav was murdered, and Franz II had never met his aunt, so was more interested in making peace with the French govt. I could see Gustav attempting to use his connections to Prussia (his mother was a Hohenzollern) or even Britain (his wife was half-British) to try and get Louis/Antoinette released. Or even just Mme Élisabeth, Antoinette and her kids (à la Henriette Maria and Charles II)
     
  13. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    That could be very interesting
     
  14. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Well surely Gustav III would prevent the OTL outcome of the negotiations as he will not forget to talk about the eventual conversion of Alexandra during the negotiations and is pretty likely who the wedding will not blow out over the religion of the bride with Gustav III and Ekaterina doing the negotiations.
     
  15. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Gustav is a canny politician thinking with his head - not his heart or somewhat lower. He'll probably find a way around a problem that seemed insurmountable to his son/brother. Hell, if he was willing to joke about the possibility of Madame Royal (a Catholic) as his daughter-in-law I'm sure he'd have a solution - even if no one's exactly 100% happy with it (neither the Swedes nor the Russians)
     
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  16. Johari Abdul Patah Well-Known Member

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    Probably in addition to being the terminator of Age of Liberty in Sweden he would also be the leader in terminating the Age of Revolution in Continental Europe. Historian would probably rate him as the most prominent Magnificent Bastard of early modern period.
     
  17. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh that good was he?
     
  18. Noblesse Oblige Reaper Squad Member

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    Except didn't all those changes occur before Jean Bernadotte though? Gustav IV was the monarch under which Sweden fumbled Finland into Russian hands, and his brother, and later Karl XIII gained Norway out of the deal (becoming Karl II of Norway in the process?)

    A surviving Gustav III...how long would he even live, if he didn't come down with a case of the gangreous bullet. (Not exactly gangreous, but I dunno as to what to describe a bullet wound that became infected.)
     
  19. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    One suspects at least inti the 1810s
     
  20. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Dad made 60yo, mom 62. Carl XIII made 69yo, while Sophie Albertine was 76yo. The average suggests he'll make it to 1812/1813 without being wankish (provided he doesn't get lynched à la Fersen beforehand).