Gustav III isn’t assassinated

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Mar 14, 2019 at 6:22 AM.

  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Say Gustav iii of Sweden isn’t assassinated, what consequences could this have for Sweden and for the development of his own son? Could we see his dynasty last longer?
     
  2. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Yay! We don't see too much of Gustav III on this site.

    I suppose it depends on how he isn't assassinated. Is it a case of the plot is foiled outright/never happens? Does he get shot but survive? Or is it a case of Anckarström attacks Gustav but is arrested before he can squeeze off the fatal shot?

    Either way, Gustav III surviving into the Age of Revolutions is going to be interesting, since according to his wiki:

    It might be more effective than the OTL declaration of Pillnitz etc.
     
  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Hmm perhaps he is arrested before he can get the shot off allowing him to be questioned.

    And oh interesting Gustav leading things with his knowledge would be fascinating. Perhaps a way to get a better handle on things?
     
  4. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Thing is Anckarstrom was only the trigger-man of a larger conspiracy (which IIRC included the future Carl XIII). If the conspiracy (no idea if this is a modern thing or not) decides to compartmentalize the assassination - each member only knows their role, not who else is involved - Anckarstrom is likely as not pretty low on the totem pole so as to not know who's sitting at the top. IIRC Gustav's outlawed torture, and even then, torture is pretty much useless for getting info out of someone, since they will say anything just to get the pain to stop. Which means that Anckarstrom is essentially useless unless he knows who his co-conspirators are.

    If he does, Gustav could probably get a swift reprisal (he was just coming off a successful war with Russia, Ekaterina II was paying him 800,000 roubles per annum in exchange for 8 years peace - a sort of victory (AFAIK) that Sweden hadn't known since the days of Carolus Rex). If Anckarstrom doesn't know anything, likely he simply gets capital punishment and the plotters might try again in a bit.
     
  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Hmm interesting so would it be better then for the plot
    To completely fail
    Or be discovered?

    I
     
  6. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    The thing is Gustav was warned ahead of schedule, and he disregarded it. So I'd say that discovery (or even someone getting cold feet and spilling their guts about it) will be shrugged off in a similar way. Gustav can't disregard the fact that if Anckarstrom comes up to him and tries to shoot him (maybe someone bumps Anckarstrom and the shot goes wild).
     
  7. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Alright yeah perhaps having Anckarstrom fire the shot and it misses makes Gustav realise he has to act
     
  8. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Sounds about right. The reprisal might be swift and bloody. Although I suspect an Affaire des Poisons element if Gustav uncovers that his brother is involved. Probably the investigation will be stopped very quickly.

    @Behemoth @Zulfurium @Milites @Jürgen @Any others knowledgeable in Swedish history of the period?
     
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  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    That’s actually something I was wondering how would Gustav III respond if he learns his brother is involved in this?
     
  10. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, Sweden has a history of kings being dethroned by their brothers (Vasas, and before them the pre-Kalmar kings) whom they have given lands and titles to. So, I imagine Gustav won't take it lightly. I'm not sure what he'll do to Carl (in a bio of Napoleon, the biographer wrote of Reichstadt "The question remained what to do with him. In an earlier age he would've been poisoned. But in these more enlightened times it was simply decided to minimize his importance"), so I imagine that outright execution or imprisonment of Carl would be out.
     
  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Hmm perhaps he’s shunted off to some distant province to govern?
     
  12. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Reichstadt’s only fault was being son of his father and Marie-Louise and was too young for doing anything when his fate was decided. Carl of Sweden is a gown-up man involved in a conspiration for killing his brother and King so is totally different. If his involvement in the conspiracy is discovered he will be at least stripped of titles and lands and imprisoned (if he is lucky will be confined under strong guard in campaign, if he is unlucky he will executed). If he is only suspected will kept under strict surveillance or “exiled” as governor of some remote province (but still with a strong guard and advisors loyals to the King).
     
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  13. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Could he ever recover if his involvement is only suspected?
     
  14. isabella Well-Known Member

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    After some years under strict surveillance (and likely honorably out of the capital) maybe
     
  15. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Okay interesting. Sweden likely benefits from a continued Gustav III and with Carl away from plotting
     
  16. TimTurner Cartoon Phanatic

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    What happens if the plot is exposed wholesale?
     
  17. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Likely then a whole lot of people are going to get killed for treason
     
  18. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    It would be a dark joke were Gustav to import the guillotine for this purpose
     
  19. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh now that would be hilarious. And of course the stories his son is likely to grow up on as well
     
  20. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, most of the noble class in Sweden was happy that they no longer had a "political genius" to contend with, and made sure that they kept Gustav IV that way.