Guide to Logistics

Saphroneth

Banned
Seconded.

hoping for several article/chapter on primitive/ancient/medieval logistics :D

Well, I could do a few. The sea transport piece will include something touching on Roman times and before, say, while I'll also look into animals at war.
 
And, finally, the most amusing strategic material of all. Tea.
The British Army in WW2 got through more tea than artillery shells - by weight. The only thing they used more of than tea by weight was bullets.
The anecdotes around WW2 tea use are many, and I'll add more later.

It's worth noting that this ties in to your post on disease. Boiling water to make tea made it safer to drink and contributed to the overall health of the troops.

It's not military logistics, but the British have a habbit of putting the kettle on for a cup of tea during the commercial breaks in TV programmes. This causes a surge in electricity demand so fast demand stations have to quickly be put on-line. The UK basically has a whole infrastructure whose main purpose is to allow the whole country to make tea at the same time.


Cheers,
Nigel.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
It's worth noting that this ties in to your post on disease. Boiling water to make tea made it safer to drink and contributed to the overall health of the troops.

It's not military logistics, but the British have a habbit of putting the kettle on for a cup of tea during the commercial breaks in TV programmes. This causes a surge in electricity demand so fast demand stations have to quickly be put on-line. The UK basically has a whole infrastructure whose main purpose is to allow the whole country to make tea at the same time.


Cheers,
Nigel.

Indeed. It's where the "oh, they made tea rather than pushing inland" idea comes from - a few squads were stationary for about ten minutes, they made tea. It's axiomatic.
It's also why the specification for every British armoured vehicle these days includes a Boiling Vessel - ie kettle.

I think my favorite anecdote, though, is that in 1942 in response to fears of tea shortage, the British government purchased all the tea in the world. There's records online of the rather startled Dail debating where they were going to get their tea.
 
Indeed. It's where the "oh, they made tea rather than pushing inland" idea comes from - a few squads were stationary for about ten minutes, they made tea. It's axiomatic.
It's also why the specification for every British armoured vehicle these days includes a Boiling Vessel - ie kettle.
Also useful for cooking rations.
 
And to stay on the logs, every litre of water has to be transported, as does the fuel to boil it.

CW troops were using petrol to wash clothing(delouse it anyway) they had so much, and bitching they had to make do with marmalade not proper jam.
 
The desert and weather are, by themselves, neutral. The British and Italians were experienced in the desert and didn't have many of the problems the Germans had, apparently the German diet was particularly detrimental to soldiers health in the desert.

Similarly distance by itself isn't a problem, the British advanced from Mersa Matruh to El Agheila some 1100km without significant supply problems due to the arrangements in rear areas and the willingness to maximise use of the sea.

The same goes for the very north. The Finns in Lapland were amazed that while the Germans had good and plentiful weapons, (comparably) a lot of motor vehicles, generous and varied rations and rather spiffy uniforms, their winter gear was really sub-par in comparison with the generally less lavishly outfitted Finnish military. Even German "mountain troops", theoretically prepared for more demanding conditions, proved woefully underequipped for the kind of conditions and terrain the Finns took pretty much for granted.

It is the same for distance here. For the German(/Finnish) campaign against Murmansk and the Murmansk railway, the distance between Petsamo and Murmansk, 120 km, may seem small on the map, but the Arctic conditions, difficult tundra terrain and a lack of an East-West railway and very poor to nonexistent roads to boot mean that only small units can be effectively supplied overland. Wheeled transportation was of very limited use. Horse-drawn artillery was in heavy difficulties. For example during Unternehmen Platinfuchs in the fall of 1941, 2/3 of the men in the German 3rd Mountain Division had to be engaged in support and logistics as opposed to combat duties. Symptomatically, the Finns often used reindeer as beasts of burden in Lapland, as that was the most common and effective local means for moving things around. In these conditions, the defender had a huge advantage over the attacker, and the Soviets could hold Murmansk with comparably small forces.
 
I think my favorite anecdote, though, is that in 1942 in response to fears of tea shortage, the British government purchased all the tea in the world. There's records online of the rather startled Dail debating where they were going to get their tea.

That's just brilliant :D

Although I read a stat (poorly sourced though) that said the Brits weren't the biggest tea drinker per capita. Nope, the Irish were! And it's true that over there they drink tea ALL the time. It's actually a lovely tradition.


All of which adds up. The Germans were consistently less well-prepared for desert conditions, undersupplied in terms of volume of supply actually reaching the front, and operating on a far more stretched base than the British were.

WWII is not my area of expertise (if anything can be called that), are there any special adaptation to be made to a tank to go in the desert? Special exhaust ports, 40's equivalent of an AC? Big metal box in the desert with a big motor, I can see a big problem being the heat, even more than for grunts.
 
Oil filters. Which really applies to dusty conditions like Russian summers as well.

Dont have the right ones, don't change them often enough and the lubricant consumption goes up around 50% and the engine life goes down.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Really, the whole thing could be summed up as "Try driving across central Asia with a cat, a baby, a trailer, and people trying to kill you, and now multiply that by the population of Ireland."

Or as "Every little detail can and will kill you".

But that wouldn't get the point across as well.
 
This is brilliant. Subscribed, please continue. (Well, other peopple say that to my post as well, but I'm not alway able to keep on updating.)

In the case you are not sure about which topic should be the next, just talk about the Mongols...
 
Which is why armies moved to trucks, if a motorised division pauses for a while the demands of the motorised components plummet whereas horses eat just as much food and drink just as much water.

Not quite - horses do have lower energy needs when they're not moving all day long, just like any other organism. Although yes, they do still consume some stuff when they're standing still, unlike say trucks.
 
Very interesting. Very useful too.

Railways are even more magical if the rails are the same distance apart in all of them. Unfortunately, if you're walking from Berlin to Moscow, or vice versa; that isn't the case.

I know the OP knows this, but it is still worth mentioning, because if pesky partisans keep damaging locomotives and rolling stock, you can't just redirect ones which normally shift non-essential stuff from Hamburg to Stuttgart and make good.

Ah. It appears Tsar Nicholas employed Ninjas in the Russian railway system...

As a logistician, I'm glad to see this topic being explored,...

Regarding rail transport, don't forget that once a train reaches it's destination, that locomotive and those cars need to return to a depot or origin to reload (they'll evacuate injured troops and horses, as well as equipment needing repair, etc.). This means to be most efficient, you'll need a second line of tracks for those trains (so the cargo moving to the front isn't delayed or disrupted).

Oh yeah, and locomotives need to be refueled (coal? wood? where does it come from?) and rail and cars repaired.

It requires quite the organization and infrastructure to logistically support an army in combat.
 
Well, I could do a few. The sea transport piece will include something touching on Roman times and before, say, while I'll also look into animals at war.
I really have no idea where I encountered it but a novel had an entertaining infodump on combat loading ships - things like typewriters and paper to facilitate comm traffic early on, ensuring you had commo wire to go with the field phones, don't forget the toilet paper, etc. Didn't the Brits have a cockup with the straps for skis?
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I really have no idea where I encountered it but a novel had an entertaining infodump on combat loading ships - things like typewriters and paper to facilitate comm traffic early on, ensuring you had commo wire to go with the field phones, don't forget the toilet paper, etc. Didn't the Brits have a cockup with the straps for skis?
Why yes, loading order is very important - critically so for invasions!
It's like going on a beach holiday, except that if you get it wrong your towel is parked under a tank and you're being shot at.

 
Let's compare the relative cost of moving supplies by: Sherpa, pack mule, horse-drawn wagon, truck, railroad, river barge, ship, jet plane, helicopter, etc.
American soldiers have complained that it cost $8,000 to ship a gallon of diesel fuel to an outpost in the Afghan mountains.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
The Mongols, or How They Learned To Stop Worrying About Logistics And Love The Ponies




The Mongols have made a deep impression on history, and arguably are the reason why places like Iran and Mesopotamia were no longer centres of world culture in the year 1400 as they were in the year 1200.

They conquered the largest contiguous empire in history, startlingly quickly, and they did things which would not become common again (in terms of organizational army structure and strategic movement) until centuries later.
And they did it with a secret weapon. Ponies.

No, there won't be any MLP references here. Probably.

No promises.

Anyway. The Mongols were fairly standard issue steppe nomads at first. They were excellent cavalry, of the cliche "born in the saddle" type, and they were herders by trade and livelihood.
Then along came someone called Temujin. Or, as we know him, Genghis Khan (lord of the sea).
Sea meaning sea of grass. That or meaning he wanted the entire world rather than just most of it.

The Mongols were unified into one nation fairly quickly under Genghis, and then they started invading places. All quite typical steppe nomad stuff, the Huns and the Cumans and the Turks and the Sarmatians and the Goths and the Alans and the Epthialites and all that were pretty much on the same mold.
But two things set the Mongols apart. One is that theydisplayed an unusual ability to adapt to civilized means of warfare - including siege warfare. Unlike before, these were nomads who could not be stopped by city walls.
The other is that, when they adapted, they retained their old military structure. This is also unusual - most of the time, a nomadic group will settle down pretty much en masse, picking up civilized tricks and trading them in for their "barbarian" advantages.
The Mongols didn't, at least not for most of their expansion westwards. Which meant their strategic mobility was breathtaking.

Steppe ponies aren't the kind of powerful cavalry horses everyone else used.
They're smaller, less able to carry really heavy weights, and a bit slower. But they've got phenomenal endurance, and most Mongolian cavalrymen had several - able to trade off between them on the march, and also able to use their milk (and, in a pinch, meat) for survival.
They also have lower energy requirements than most horses, so can sustain themselves well on grazing, and they're cold-tolerant. (Less likely to die of hypothermia - always useful for winter campaigning.)

The practical upshot of this, and of the way the Mongolian herders who were their warriors were self sufficient in civilian life, was that a Mongolian army had a tiny logistic footprint.
Or hoofprint.
They basically all did most of the work for themselves, on the march, so the army's logistical core could focus on a few things like the siege train and mobile forges - all of which could be left behind by all but a token force, so the Mongolian tumen (a standardized force of 10,000 - basically a division) could fan out and hit their enemies from unexpected directions.

The number of ways the Mongols achieved amazing things is staggering. For example, they successfully invaded Russia. (From the East.)
They invaded Russia in the winter - and won.
They launched a single summer campaign (1241) which essentially conquered eastern Europe.
And then they went home again, never to return so far west.

Their way of carrying messages was basically a duplicate of the pony express, and could carry an important message at about thirty to forty miles per hour - so it took them barely days to cross the vastness of Siberia.

They were the last of the great nomadic invasions - after them, gunpowder made such increasingly difficult - and by far the most successful.
 
Norman Stone suggested that Falkenhayen had a better grasp of modern warfare than H & L because he understood that modern armies couldn't be supplied more than 100 miles from their railhead. The offensive at Gorlice-Tarnow was conducted initially over a 35km wide front and in 6 weeks advanced 100 miles taking considerable territory on the flanks of this main advance.

This 100 mile mark is mentioned by Van Creveld in his chapter on the German advance to the Marne in 1914.
 
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