guderian in africa

rommel suffering from stress and poor diet was sent home after the first battle of alemain

he requested that guderian be sent to africa as his deputy

guderian was still out of favor with okw at this time since his little tit for tat with kluge ( he would return to favor a few months later after stalingrad)

lets say he is given his chance earlier and is sent to command the dak and italians in rommel's stead instead of general stumme who would subsequently die in the second battle and force rommel back to africa early

would his presence change the outcome of the battle and would rommel ever return to africa?
 
would his presence change the outcome of the battle and would rommel ever return to africa?


I am by no means an expert, but, the way I see things, second El Alemain was just the type of battle the commonwealth forces could fight and win*: no fancy maneuvers, no need for massive improvisation, no fear of flanking attacks, massive superiority in numbers and firepower in all categories, kownledge of the battlefield, total secrecy and a deceived enemy. The only thing against them was the thick defensive line the axis erected, but for which they more then compensated.

So, given this, what on earth could the Germans have done that lead to anything more than marginally increased British casualties, other than an early retreat for which they didn't have the fuel for anyway ?


* - although, given the utter lack of fuel facing the DAK at this point, they couldn't have beaten the British anywhere in NA and in any circumstance
 
He would have probably ignored Hitlers November 3rd no retreat order from Hitler, which means more Italians might have escaped the battle, including formations like the Ariete division would have been useful later.

Would Guderian be able to understand British intentions, not counter attack piecemeal and preserve more tanks early in the battle????

If the first few days went better for the Germans would Montgomery call off the attack November 2nd or so??? OTL the British had a pretty good idea of waning German strength through ULTRA intercepts. Maybe if the Germans had 30 more tanks or even if Guderian was putting up a brave front to German HQ to keep his job, would the British would have quit???

Ultimately Torch happens, and the British try again a month later and assuridly win, but perhaps politics changes during and after the war. No Montogermery legend, OTL the British got to have their moment before the Americans arrived, that wouldn't happen here.
 
After First Alamein the only thing the Germans did was attack at Alam Halfa.

Maybe Guderian would have handled the battle a little differently but by the Autumn of 1942 German offensive tactics were well understood by British and Russian forces, hence there were few big German offensive successes after this point.

All he could do was dig in. I'm not sure how good Guderian was at static defence warfare. Unlikely to be any better than Rommel.

Second Alamein was Montgomery's battle and was won within his timetable. Guderian could do nothing that would alter the result.

As for following or ignoring orders we don't know what he would have done with the Hitler order. Disobeying again would have ended his career. Rommel had many victories prior to 2nd Alamein and Hitler loved him. The feeling for Guderian would not be so forgiving. This may/may not affect Guderian's thinking.
 
No change at all. From Alam Halfa on (till 1945) german armour was offensively impotent against Western Allied forces beyond a tactical level and then only in exceptional circumstances.

The Axis forces in Africa are on the wrong end of a Materialschlacht while being nailed in place by allied air forces.
 
No change at all. From Alam Halfa on (till 1945) german armour was offensively impotent against Western Allied forces beyond a tactical level and then only in exceptional circumstances.

The Axis forces in Africa are on the wrong end of a Materialschlacht while being nailed in place by allied air forces.

Agreed. Almost every German panzer attack on British forces was repulsed fairly easily from Alam Halfa onwards.
 
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