Guderian and Kluge: pistols at dawn

In one of the more comical events of Nazi's Germany's panic in late 1941, Field Marshal Von Kluge who had been having a personal and deep feud with Heinz Guderian for years challenged him to a duel. In a long letter to Hitler, Kluge asked that he sanction the duel AND that Hitler himself act as Kluge's second during the actual duel.

Hitler turned him down and refused to sanction the duel, told him to shut up and fired Guderian for being a pain in the ass and not following orders.

Let's say Hitler allows the duel (he did love political theater after all) and agrees to let Guderian and Kluge go pistols at dawn with each having their chief of staff as their second...

how do we see that event going
 
In one of the more comical events of Nazi's Germany's panic in late 1941, Field Marshal Von Kluge who had been having a personal and deep feud with Heinz Guderian for years challenged him to a duel. In a long letter to Hitler, Kluge asked that he sanction the duel AND that Hitler himself act as Kluge's second during the actual duel.

Hitler turned him down and refused to sanction the duel, told him to shut up and fired Guderian for being a pain in the ass and not following orders.

Let's say Hitler allows the duel (he did love political theater after all) and agrees to let Guderian and Kluge go pistols at dawn with each having their chief of staff as their second...

how do we see that event going

That will change the Eastern front radically depeding of who died(if Hanz, maybe will not going to have the 'myth' of failure before moscow, if Von Kluge.. sorry have little idea...)
 
Perhaps you could have Hitler agree to be Kluge's second, and he ends up getting shot (not necessarily killed, just out of commission for a while)? How good of a shot was Guderian?
 
Perhaps you could have Hitler agree to be Kluge's second, and he ends up getting shot (not necessarily killed, just out of commission for a while)? How good of a shot was Guderian?

Hmm, I have a hard time predicting who would win the actual duel... neither man had ever served in a frontline infantry role as far as I could tell so I can't imagine either of them would be a great shot under pressure (as opposed to someone like Rommel who would win one of these encounters rather handily)

I can't see Hitler himself participating in the duel, even if he allowed it if only because he had intense political love for both men and couldn't be seen to be playing favorites in a match of honor... he might watch for the theater; but not be handing Kluge his lugar
 
In duels, do seconds stand that close to the dueling parties?

In order for someone to miss their enemy and hit Hitler, he'd have to be standing fairly close, if not behind him.
 
In duels, do seconds stand that close to the dueling parties?

In order for someone to miss their enemy and hit Hitler, he'd have to be standing fairly close, if not behind him.

They also take place at no more than 30 yards... its not like Guderian would be aiming for Hitler
 
Raining on a parade...

According to wikipedia, there was a long-standing tradition of non-lethal fencing duels in German academia... though it was temporarily abolished (in academia) during the Third Reich. On the other hand, wikipedia also claims that the Third Reich allowed these duels among the military.

It strikes me as more likely that a Guderian-Kluge duel would be with swords rather than pistols, and probably to the first touch rather than to death.

End result: Either Kluge or Guderian gets a dueling scar, but Hitler probably keeps his own council regarding the war effort.
Depending on when in 1941 this occurs, it's possible Shirer or others in the American press corps in Germany could get word of the duel; if so, the duel might be played up briefly in British propaganda.
 
According to wikipedia, there was a long-standing tradition of non-lethal fencing duels in German academia... though it was temporarily abolished (in academia) during the Third Reich. On the other hand, wikipedia also claims that the Third Reich allowed these duels among the military.

It strikes me as more likely that a Guderian-Kluge duel would be with swords rather than pistols, and probably to the first touch rather than to death.

End result: Either Kluge or Guderian gets a dueling scar, but Hitler probably keeps his own council regarding the war effort.
Depending on when in 1941 this occurs, it's possible Shirer or others in the American press corps in Germany could get word of the duel; if so, the duel might be played up briefly in British propaganda.


Hmm... sword fighting? I guess I would give the advantage to Guderian he was 6 years younger, and his regimen during Barbarossa involved a lot of cardiovascular exercise
 
It's not a sword fight in the action movie sense, it's a strictly reglemented duel in which every conceivable danger to the life of the duelists is eliminated by chainmail around the neck and shoulders and thick leather straps across the nose and temples which are incorporated into protective goggles.

Nothing at all lethal about it ;)
 
It's not a sword fight in the action movie sense, it's a strictly reglemented duel in which every conceivable danger to the life of the duelists is eliminated by chainmail around the neck and shoulders and thick leather straps across the nose and temples which are incorporated into protective goggles.

Nothing at all lethal about it ;)

It should be pointed out though that people have died in fencing bouts (Shattered blade through the eye socket being one of the ways IIRC).
 
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