Guatemala retains Chiapas

  • Thread starter Deleted member 109224
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This belongs in pre-1900, since Guatemala had already lost effective control of Chiapas since the 1840s and officially recognised Mexican control and the current border by the 1890s. I doubt Guatemala could hold onto all of Chiapas anyway (just Soconusco is possible though), there be too much regionalism and demands for a Chiapas Republic.
 
This belongs in pre-1900, since Guatemala had already lost effective control of Chiapas since the 1840s and officially recognised Mexican control and the current border by the 1890s. I doubt Guatemala could hold onto all of Chiapas anyway (just Soconusco is possible though), there be too much regionalism and demands for a Chiapas Republic.

Why would there be a Chiapas independence movement like OTL's? That has more to do with differences from Mexico that wouldn't really exist with Guatemala.
 

Deleted member 109224

The los altos regions was pretty wealthy compared to the surrounding regions. Historically it got divided between Mexico and Guatemala - here Guatemala gets the whole shebang.

Would Guatemala be a richer country here? Would Chiapas be wealthier if it was being listened to by Guatemala City instead of ignored by Mexico City?
 
Chiapas was never part of Guatemala, except for the Los Altos region you mentioned above. It was a separate part of the Captaincy General of Guatemala upon independence from Spain. When Central America decided to become independence from Mexico and try their brief federal experiement, Chiapas decided to stay part of Mexico. Guatemala was considered of having too much electoral power in the new United Provinces of Central America (UPCA) and was broken up into Guatemala and Los Altos to be fairer. But as the federation collapsed and all the states proclaimed independence, Guatemala invaded Los Altos to take it back. At the same time, Mexico took the Soconusco region of Los Altos and added it to Chiapas.

A Guatemala with Soconusco probably would not be too much different than OTL. It is an extra piece of coastline but doesn't remove Chiapas's coast. Maybe it would actually have been worse for Guatemala if keeping Soconusco leads to border disputes and possibly war with Mexico. Where did you read that it was pretty wealthy compared to the rest of the surrounding regions? I read that Central America, including Chiapas, was relatively resource poor and considered a political and economic backwater for much of its history up to independence.

An interesting timeline would be if Chiapas decided to become independent and how it affects everything in Mexican and Central American history. And I am always in favor of more UPCA stays united timelines as that would have a major impact on world history, but it is hard to find many Central American experts here and hard to find thorough books on Central American history in physical bookstores. I had to take some risks and find some decent ones online. My wife is from Honduras so I am interested in that part of the world's history now. The various wikipedia articles on those topics are fairly decent though.
 

Maoistic

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Obviously it would be a richer country, and it's possible that it would have an even stronger Mayan identity than it has today given Chiapas' Mayan population. In fact, I see the northern and western region of Guatemala, the most Mayan out of the whole country, unifying with Chiapas into their own country. At the very least, Mayan nationalism would be even stronger than it is right now, which is actually very strong if the virtual parallel states in Totonicapán and the Zapatistas - which have a very strong Mayan identity - are any indication.
 
Obviously it would be a richer country, and it's possible that it would have an even stronger Mayan identity than it has today given Chiapas' Mayan population. In fact, I see the northern and western region of Guatemala, the most Mayan out of the whole country, unifying with Chiapas into their own country. At the very least, Mayan nationalism would be even stronger than it is right now, which is actually very strong if the virtual parallel states in Totonicapán and the Zapatistas - which have a very strong Mayan identity - are any indication.

Your comment belies your intent of wanting a Mayan state with Zapatista ideology. That wouldn't exist in this timeline. This new Chiapas-Guatemala would most likely not be richer per capita unless it's ATL gives it long term stability with no coups/civil wars and rule of law that will allow an economy to develop well as Chiapas has very limited natural resources too.

Most likely an independent Chiapas or mixed Chiapas-Guatemala would resemble the rest of the Central American countries. Post independence would have a very conservative rule that would likely have indigenous or mestizo caudillos as the dictators of the country (see Rafael Carrera - first dictator of Guatemala, mulatto and successfully led a mostly native and mestizo revolt to destroy UPCA and then put the oligarchic conservative class in power). When the Central American 19th century liberals arise as they historically did, they will focus on cash crops to build the economy and then get addicted to the wealth and power in turn and then become the new wealthy ruling class. Coup and countercoup will happen and then the Cold War, if it is similar in this ATL, will cause similar civil war/insurgency issues. The Mayans being mostly campesinos will still be targeted as they would be who both the gov and the guerillas will be competiting for. You would need bigger butterflies than Guatemala is bigger and more native to get the timeline you desire.
 
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