Gross Deutschland

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Deleted member 1487

How does one get a united German nation (that is including Austria) with a POD not earlier than 1750?
 

Deleted member 1487

I should clarify: Germany includes Austria permanently in 2009 and Austrians are viewed as Germans, the same as Bavarians (to outsiders that is ;)). Also it would be nice if the World Wars don't happen, but I am not too picky, so lets say bonus points if 20th century is peaceful at least in Europe.
 
How does one get a united German nation (that is including Austria) with a POD not earlier than 1750?

Easily.

In other ways, there are an enormous number of potential scenarios for this. One could simply grab a couple of timelines that seem to be shaping up that way and link to 'em. Drop a shell on Hitler and it becomes a highly probable outcome.

This isn't a challenge: there are loads of ways to fulfil it. We need more specific parameters, or a much tighter time limit. How about PoD Septermber 1939, and no Nazi victory scenarios?
 
How about a WW1 scenario in which Germany wins, and Austria-Hungary wins in a Pyhrric victory and subsequently falls apart as in OTL, but perhaps even worse?
 

Deleted member 5719

Stop Germany from starting wars to make Germany bigger. Job done.
 
Too easy, as already stated.

The first idea which comes to mind is reverse 1866, obviously. Another one would be to avoid the french revolutionary export and keep the HRE going; then a reform of the HRE...etc. Or have the french revolution be more sucessfull and create a sister 'Teutonic republic', which includes Austria

But I could think of a few other tens of scenarii.
 
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General Zod

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How does one get a united German nation (that is including Austria) with a POD not earlier than 1750?

Some typical PoDs:

* A liberal-nationalist Emperor of Austria cooperates with the 1848 Revolution.

* A liberal-nationalist King of Prussia cooperates with the 1848 Revolution, Russia is somehow prevented from helping the Habsburg, Austria loses in Italy and Hungary as a result, and the Habsburg Empire collapses (TL here).

* Bismarck partitions the Habsburg Empire with Italy and Russia in 1866 (TL here).

* The Ausgliech fails or collapses.

* Germany makes the Triple Alliance with Russia and Italy, Austria allies with France, Britain, and the Ottomans, and the CPs win WWI (TL here).

* The CPs win WWI, but the war effort causes irreversible collapse of the Habsburg Empire, Germany steps in and picks the pieces (TL here).

* Weimar somehow transforms into a stable democracy, or it undergoes a regime change to an expansionist-nationalist but sane far right regime, and neither pick a world war with all the other major great powers when they implement irredentist recovery of Austria, the Sudetenland, and the Corridor (TL here).

* Hitler is ousted from power between November 1938 and August 1939 by assassination or coup, and a moderate leadership takes over, as above (TL here).

* Hitler is ousted from power during the Phony War, and the successor bargains a compromise peace with the Western powers over Poland.

* The anti-Nazi coup attempts in March 1943 or July 1944 succeed and the post-Nazi government bargains the Allies into a compromise peace or conditional surrender with German national unity in the post-Munich borders (TL here and here).

* The Soviets never set up Austria as a neutral buffer state and it remains divided throughout the Cold War, so respective halves are unified with the German counterparts, and the fall of the Berlin Wall sees the reunfiication of Greater Germany.
 
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Four options

I see four possibilities.

abt. 1750
Friedrich II. and Maria Theresia marry. As they both can be considered as "enlightend", there may be a chance of unifying most of Germany. And during the Napoleonic wars, they gain the rest of Germany.

1815
The Prussian reformers like Humboldt etc. have a better standing and are able to form a stronger confederation ("Deutscher Bund" as in OTL). Humboldt and Stein planned a unified code of law, customs, military, roads, etc. Maybe that's a way.

1848
Germans stand up, overthrow the monarchs and form a nation-wide republic...nay, that'll never happen...

1862
Bismarck drowns at Biarritz. King Wilhelm resigns during the constitutional crisis, thus having Friedrich III. (the OTL cancer Kaiser) as Prussian king. No German war in 1866, no Franco-Prussian war in 1870/71. But still Prussia, Austria and other German countries as part of the German confederation.
 
There are a lot of threads about this. And a lot of TLs with a Grossdeutschland. The big one that comes to mind is 'Decades of Darkness', but that's not a European POD, so...

The thing I never understood was a true German homestate would have to be huge, stretching from the Channel to Hungary. But what about the Germanic enclaves in Transylvania, the Volga, Tyrol, and elsewhere? Are there any TLs where these regions are actively considered as part of 'Germany'?
 
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