Großdeutschland possible?

Is a Großdeutschland possible in the 19th Century, and can anybody find a plausible way? By Großdeutschland, I mean all German lands plus all Hapsburg territories. My TL is centred around this nation being formed, and I would kinda hate to have to cancel it, so could anybody help?
 

Eurofed

Banned
Is a Großdeutschland possible in the 19th Century, and can anybody find a plausible way? By Großdeutschland, I mean all German lands plus all Hapsburg territories. My TL is centred around this nation being formed, and I would kinda hate to have to cancel it, so could anybody help?

Do you mean also the non-German/Czech lands ? Only in 1848, and it requires that Germany and Italy are united and join Hungary in a proto-EU confederal union. This requires either the Habsburg taking the lead of the revolution, with the Hohenzollern and the Savoy either defeated on the battlefield, bought over, or toppled by revolution, or democratic-republican revolutions occurring in Prussia, Austria, and Savoy or Naples. Also winning the inevitable war with France and/or Russia which would occur soon afterwards.
 
Germany had the chance to take land from Austria in 1866, though I don't know how realistic it would have been to take anything more than Austrian Silesia or perhaps Salzburg.

There was a pan Germanic movement in Vienna that wanted to see Austria join with the German Empire in the 1870s, 1880s etc. Since the German Empire was a federal empire, Austria could have joined as a kingdom with the same rights as Bavaria, but this would not have been to the dignity of the Habsburgs who would never have done this by choice.

If there is no Ausgleich in 1866, and maybe if the war with Prussia lasts longer, then the Habsburg Empire might fracture sufficiently for Germany to take all of the Germanic lands in a victory, maybe including Bohemia and Carniola

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Well, basically there are two situations it can happen

1) If Austria wins in 1866, or in 1850 had war broken out then.


2) If Austria collapses altogether in 1866, or in any subsequesnt war. Germany can't allow the Russians to move into Bohemia, which would make Germany's eastern flank indefensible, so might have to occupy it (and the Germna provinces) herself.
 
Germany had the chance to take land from Austria in 1866, though I don't know how realistic it would have been to take anything more than Austrian Silesia or perhaps Salzburg.

There was a pan Germanic movement in Vienna that wanted to see Austria join with the German Empire in the 1870s, 1880s etc. Since the German Empire was a federal empire, Austria could have joined as a kingdom with the same rights as Bavaria, but this would not have been to the dignity of the Habsburgs who would never have done this by choice.

If there is no Ausgleich in 1866, and maybe if the war with Prussia lasts longer, then the Habsburg Empire might fracture sufficiently for Germany to take all of the Germanic lands in a victory, maybe including Bohemia and Carniola

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Yeah, if the Hungarians break away than all bets are off and Großdeutschland becomes a serious possibility.
 
Let me give you another alternative:

What if the Hungarians were much more successful during the Revolution in 1848? Lets say they founded an completely independent state and this state then includes at least Transylvania and Hungary. Sure the role of Czechs, Italians, Croatians and other Slaws inside Austria is worth a discussion.

Then it is much more likely that Prussia and the remaining Austria would form something common, although France and Russia would be worried to have such a strong rival in the heart of Europe.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Let me give you another alternative:

What if the Hungarians were much more successful during the Revolution in 1848? Lets say they founded an completely independent state and this state then includes at least Transylvania and Hungary. Sure the role of Czechs, Italians, Croatians and other Slaws inside Austria is worth a discussion.

Then it is much more likely that Prussia and the remaining Austria would form something common, although France and Russia would be worried to have such a strong rival in the heart of Europe.

For the Hungarians to be succesful in 1848 you need no Russian intervention combined with a much weaker Habsburg Empire. Perhaps if the Habsburgs had not been able to stop the liberal trends, and failed to put down the Italian and Austrian German liberals, the Russians wouldn't see Habsburg Hungary worth saving (perhaps gone for Galizia instead), and Hungary would become independent, and the rest of Austria pretty much collapsing.
 
Perhaps having the delegates not voting Austria out of the Frankfurt Parliament might help, combined with the rebels lasting longer, and GrossDeutschland could perhaps happen under a liberal Germany.
 
Another Issue that was a major stumblingblock for the Frankfurt Palriament of 1848 was would would lead the prospective unified German state. Would it be led by the Habsburgs from Vienna or would the Prussian Hohenzollerns rule? Perhaps if the Habsurgs had been pursuaded to give up their rights to Hungary especially in view of the revolutions there in exchange for leadership of a new, much more politically stable empire it might have worked.
 
I concur with that it's what my time line is about after all. (shameless plug)
 
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