Groß-Deutschland v2.0

Philippines

Hey folks,

is this TL actually going anywhere? I'm interested in taking up the work again. Has anyone collected any ideas that he/she could lay out in front of us? Mine would be Spain successfully selling the Philippines to Germany in a Spanish-American war equivalent since the Spanish needed the money. The idea has actually been brought up earlier in this thread, and I think it is interesting. From there on, the Germans and Americans would divide the Pacific along a North-South line (with exceptions here and there) in a move to negotiate possession of the islands in the ocean. In turn, Germany would abstain from claims in the Caribbean.
 

JJohnson

Banned
I posted on the map thread, but here's a re-post. The short version: no Kaiser after 1918.

I kind of have. I've been a bit pre-occupied with real-life stuff, but I've gotten some ideas down about the start of the timeline, and the ending, and the middle is where everything needs to get worked out.

The starting points:
*1740: Admiral Vernon heads to Havana instead of Cartagena de Indias, capturing the port for Britain. After several months fighting, the British control the entire island, which is confirmed in the Treaty of Madrid.
*1774: Quebec Act is passed with measures that anger the population of Quebec enough to swell patriot sentiment
*1776: US Declaration of Independence signed; Quebec has no elected legislature but declares independence itself
*1778: Jonathan Eddy and his troops in Nova Scotia manage to capture several key towns along the route from the District of Maine, and declare independence from the British
*1779: Bermuda captured from the British
*1780: The Bahamas are captured by Georgians and South Carolinians
*1783: Treaty of Paris is signed, granting US independence, with the Rupert's Land border at Lac St Jean, leading into the St. Lawrence along the Saguenay River, and in the west at Lake Nipigon into Thunder Bay (confusion over western land features plays a part in a future treaty); The Lake of the Woods flowing into the Great Lakes forms the border at the south end of the Great Lakes, ensuring access to this important waterway. Nova Scotia, under Jonathan Eddy, joins the Continental Congress, while Quebec did not sign the Articles of Confederation. Most Loyalists evacuate from North America to Cuba and British Honduras. From here, the focus of the British Empire is additional settler colonies.
*1786: Convention of London: The UK evacuates the Mosquito Coast, in exchange for greater territory for British Honduras, Providencia, Roatan Island, and Margarita Island from Spain.
*1787: The Constitution is drafted, but not signed by Quebec or Nova Scotia, both of which remain independent for a time.
*1791: Vermont joins as the 14th state, soon followed by Nova Scotia
*1798-99: French-American War: Minor skirmishes over trade harassment, and French impressment of Quebecker and a few French-speaking Americans bring President Adams to increase the size of the US Navy, and transfer control of St Pierre and Miquelon from France to the US. The ineffectiveness of the Quebec naval forces (meager as they were) led to calls of joining the American republic, which it does in 1800, too late to save President Adams. As part of annexation, Quebec releases land west of the Ottawa river to the Northwestern Territory in return for assumption of its debts.
*1803: Louisiana Purchase made, nearly doubling the US. Territory north of the Great Lakes becomes Canada territory.
*1806-8: British-Spanish War: United Kingdom invades the River Plate, with Spain granting the Salado River west to the Pacific and south to the cape to Britain. There are 2 Salado rivers, causing a later war over which one when British settlers begin pouring in.
*War of 1812: British-American War over impressment, trade harassment is fought between the two countries. The British burn Quebec City and Washington DC before war's end
*1814: British-American War ends, without much to show on either side. British settlers dry up in North America, and begin flowing into South America, Cuba, British Honduras, and soon South Africa with numerous incentives and promise of land.
*1814: Treaty of Paris: The United Kingdom is encouraged by its ministers to draw a different treaty:
-Guadalupe and Martinique are transferred to Sweden
-French Guiana is transferred to the crown of Hanover, later Prussia
-Seychelles, Reunion, and Mauritius are transferred to Prussia for its part in the war. The local population of around 71,000 French citizens decreases to around 43,000 by 1820, not wanting to be under Prussian dominion. By 1900, only around 18,000 still speak French amongst the islanders.
-Convention of London: Britain takes control of Cape Colony from the Dutch, with the Dutch provision for settlement in the inland of the colony. This begins a steady stream of settlement, preventing Afrikaans from developing as anything more than a dialect of Dutch.
*1814-15: Second British-Spanish War: over the use of the Salado River. Britain fields a larger army than Spain can, and forces a larger settlement: the Uruguay river encompassing British Southeast America, and the Bermejo River at the north, emptying into the river plate via the Parana River, then due west to the Pacific. A later Paraguayan war settled the border in the 30s, recognizing OTL Misiones/Entre Rios as part of British territory.
*1816: Hanover sends its first ships to Guiana, with 120 Hanoverians, Hessians, Brunswickians, Westphalians, and Rhinelanders to its new land. They found Königshaven, Georgsburg, and rename Cayenne Königsburg after the King of Hanover, George III. Another settlement, Adolphusdorf (Kourou), is founded by 20 additional settlers near the end of the year.
*1817: Prussian-British agreement: Prussia will maintain a merchant fleet for the purpose of settling its colonies, provide British access to its colonial markets, and British naval forces will aid Prussian ships on the high seas.
*1819: Prussia sents four ships of 243 settlers to the Seychelles, Reunion, and Mauritius. Hanoverian Guiana opens its first brewery, the Königsburger Brauhaus. Port Louis becomes Friedrichshafen, and Saint-Denis becomes Sankt Andreas.
*1828: Guianan War: Brazilian Empire attempts to annex Hanoverian Guiana, but draws the United Kingdom in to a war for which it is not prepared, leading to a 9-month conflict resulting in the Treaty of St Paul, where Brazil agrees to cede Amapa to Guiana, and the territory of Sao Paulo in return for a payment of 20 million pounds. The countries sign a peace treaty which lasted through the imperial period
-Prussia has sent over 8000 settler families to its islands, 3,000 each to Reunion and Mauritius, and 2000 to the Seychelles.

Skip a few years...

*1871: German Empire is founded; it inherits Reunion, Mauritius, Seychelles, and Guiana.
*1878: Kaiser Wilhelm I is assassinated June 2. Frederick becomes the new Kaiser
*1885: Prince Henry marries Elisabeth of Hesse and by Rhine, and will go on to have seven children by her. Princess Marie served as their flower girl.
*1888: Kaiser Friedrich III has brought some reform to the empire, but dies before he can make much more change. Kaiser Wilhelm II becomes the new Kaiser. Germany has a number of colonies as a result of the 'Scramble for Africa' though none become as profitable as Guiana, Reunion, and Mauritius have been.
*1897: no Greco-Turkish war is fought; changing mood of the people, and a desire for diplomatic aid from the British in the dispute mean the Greeks stay put. The Greek state chooses instead not to default its loans at the time.
*1900: Reunion has a population of around 192,000 people, mostly descended from Prussians, with minorities of Bavarians, Saxons, and others. Mauritius has around 104,000, and the Seychelles have 18,000, most African; Guiana has around 34,000, mostly African and some Native American.
*1904: Colonial Office reform is made, bringing the colonies some degree of responsible government, with the greatest attention to the islands and Guiana. Walvis Bay in Namibia becomes an important port for German diamond exports in the region, with a larger native German population being in Namibia than OTL.
*1912: James Fischer is elected President in the United States. Irish home rule bill passes in Parliament, the net effect of which means Ireland stays within the UK.
*1914: the Great War breaks out in Europe much like OTL.
*1915: The US joins the war after an American ship is sunk by a German sub. Instead of remaining neutral, Greece joins the Entente, in return for British aid in seeking to regain its historically Greek land, to which Britain agrees. Venizelos defies the King and refuses to resign in 1915, instead all of Greece joins the Entente 1915 - the Ottomans and Bulgarians fall a few months earlier 1918, and Greece is rewarded with Cyprus (but with British basing rights), northern Epirus (southern Albania) with substantial interests in the rest of Albania, Bulgarian Thrace (as IOTL), Turkish Thrace (as IOTL), the straits (but demilitarised) and Ionia (as IOTL). Population transfer (in reality, ethnic cleansing) happens on both sides and a lot of Greeks, Pontic Greeks and Armenians as well as other Christians in the former Ottoman Empire now controlled by the Turkish Republic ends up in Greece.
*1918: German monarchy collapses; Prince Henry, who had been abroad, had 'negotiated' with the British and Americans for leniency, leading to French illusions of a collusion or betrayal. Far right groups begin gaining more power in France after the war. Germany loses most African colonies except for Namibia, Mauritius, Seychelles, Reunion, and German Guiana, as well as Alsace-Lorraine and North Schleswig, but retains the Polish Corridor, leading to widespread anti-German sentiment amongst the Polish in Posen. War reparations are high, but using the diamond fields and sugar cane help with reparation payments much more than OTL. President Fischer's aim in 1918's Versailles Treaty was that the people of Europe be governed by their own people; part of the treaty revising borders, Sopron and Preßburg were to go to Austria, along with the entire Duchy of Carinthia, and parts of Styria including 'Maribor' (Marburg), but stopped short at the Czechoslovak state due to British pressure. Armenia was to be granted sea access, guarded by the British, and the Greeks would get their areas where they were the majority.
*1918: Anglo-American Treaty: The US agrees to forgive British war debt in exchange for the Virgin Islands.
*1919-22: Greco-Turkish War: Greece and Turkey fight for what Greece believes is its rightful territory; Venizelos amends election law to give him a majority of seats
-Greece is a staunch ally of Britain and France, especially as Alexander (who has ruled since 1915, when King Constantine abdicated in the conflict with Venizelos) does not die from being bitten by a monkey and recieves military and economic aid. Venizelos reforms the election laws and continue to rule, weeding out corruption and setting up a small welfare state along Bismarckian lines.
-Wrangel's fleet with the refugee White Russians from Ukraine and Crimea stays in Greek constantinople. Greece is, due to religious similarity, proximity to Russia and land for sale from the state (seized from Turks) the favoured place to settle for White Russians fleeing the revolution.
-The British transfer the two battleships Reshadieh/HMS Erin and Sultan Osman I/HMS Agincourt and the White Russian fleet transfer most of its vessels, including the battleship Alexander III/Volya/General Alexeiev.
-Turkey is forced to cede Greater Armenia under Russian, British, and French occupation of their territory; Armenia gets Trebizond as a port. Britain gets the Aegean zone and Palestine; France gets Syria, and Russia gets Armenia. Turkish government is transferred to Ankara. Turks attack again attempting to regain territory, but Greek forces, better armed, and backed with British aid and troops, force another peace on the Turks, this time, ceding Constantinople to the Greeks, and all Aegean-facing provinces.
*1923: Germany cracks down on a number of extremist groups across the country
*1927: a constitutional reform requires parties to get more than 5% to be seated in the Reichstag, virtually eliminating most extreme parties from the body. France, however, is stewing in the myth of Anglo-German collusion to betray France. Action Francaise and Croix-de-Feu grow in power amongst the people every month that passes.
*1929: Great Depression hits every country hard, though Germany weathers the storm better than most
*1932: France's elections bring the Cartel de Droites into power, a group of far-right parties united together. Italy had been making overtures since the 20's to France and Germany, believing itself capable of swaying the balance of power in Europe. Italy informed France, that it would be willing to offer France support against Germany if France gave Italy its mandate over Cameroon and allowed Italy a free hand in Ethiopia.
*1936: Spain joins in alliance with France and Italy under Franco. Germany, still abiding by most of its limitations begins to be alarmed. Austrian Fascism however, is also growing
*1938: Austrian Crisis: Austrian pan-germanists attack in Bavaria, bringing in the small German fascist movement with them in a beer hall putsch, that escalates into a war between Germany and Austria; It ends months later with the Germans finally forcing Austrian surrender at Vienna. The Austrian fascist movement collapses, and a number of Austrians voice their desire to join Germany; Tirol and Vorarlberg formally petition to join Germany; by December, Germany annexes Austria under the League of Nations' blessing to prevent another war. France threatens war against German aggression; Prime Minister Chamberlain of the UK flies to Europe, returning with a signed agreement from France, declaring 'peace in our time.' A number of scientists leave Germany before and during the crisis over fears of Austrian attack, and soon, French attack.
*1939: France launches a pre-emptive war on Germany; the second Polish republic joins with them, as does Czechoslovakia, with France having played on their fears of Germany.
*1940: France begins aerial raids over the southern coast of the UK to keep them away from Europe and her colonies. France sweeps the Rhine region, around into southern Germany, setting up a puppet government
*1941: The US enters the war after Japan attacks Pearl Harbor.
*1945: The US drops two atomic bombs and ends the war. Europe falls also. As a result of this war, Spain loses its African cities to Germany, Morocco to Britain, and the Cape Verde to Germany. Portugal, having also backed France, loses the Azores and Madeira to the UK.
*1946: Russia sets up an 'iron curtain' around Warsaw and west Poland.
*1948: Chinese civil war: the Republic of China successfully defends against the communists, who manage to capture around half the country.
*1949-51: Korean War: US, UK, DE involved, and beat back the communist Koreans, leaving Korea intact and free.
*2012: Germany is a larger country with many overseas departments, along with the UK and US.

That's a rough sketch. I skipped a few years that only had to do with the US, which gained Baja California, Sonora, Chihuahua, and the Republic of the Rio Grande from Mexico.
 

JJohnson

Banned
Germany's Territory

Basically, a Germany that covers:

-German Empire (minus North Schleswig)
-Sudetenland
-Austria
-Preßburg
-South Tirol
-Belfort
-the actual bits of Carinthia/Styria that contained German speakers after WW1 ended
-Sopron as the capital of Burgenland

States:
States and sizes, alphabetically:

1. Alsace-Lorraine 15,131.40
2. Baden 15,070.00
3. Bayern 78,107.79
4. Berlin 891.85
5. Brandenburg 39,009.34
6. Bremen 419.23
7. Burgenland 4,552.33
8. Carinthia 10,327.00
9. Hamburg 833.20
10. Hanover 47,288.39
11. Hessen 23,638.40
12. Lower Austria 21,863.98
13. Lübeck 214.10
14. Mecklenberg 16,056.42
15. Ostpreußen 36,993.90
16. Pommern 30,120.54
17. Posen 28,970.40
18. Rheinland 26,967.13
19. Sachsen 29,752.95
20. Sachsen-Anhalt 25,072.46
21. Salzburg 7,156.03
22. Schlesien 50,447.28
23. Schleswig-Holstein 15,585.28
24. Styria 17,778.35
25. Thüringen 14,764.78
26. Tirol 20,040.14
27. Upper Austria 13,697.66
28. Vienna 414.65
29. Vorarlberg 2,601.12
30. Westfalen 22,551.12
31. Westpreußen 25,534.90
32. Württemberg-Hohenzollern 20,649.27

Explanations of states:
*Berlin, Bremen, Vienna are OTL current sizes.
*Lübeck is the size of the current Kreis, since I don't have exact numbers for the exclaves.
*Baden, West Prussia, East Prussia, Posen, Pommerania, Vorarlberg, Salzburg are OTL sizes.
*Württemberg includes Hohenzollern
*Bavaria is the Kingdom's size plus Coburg, and the Kreise Bergreichenstein, Markt Eisenstein, Prachatitz
*Lower Austria is the current state plus the Kreise Bruck an der Leitha, Gmünd, Horn, Neubistritz, Nikolsburg, Waidhofen an der Thaya, Znaim
*Upper Austria is the current state plus the Kreise Kaplitz, Krummau an der Moldau
*Burgenland is OTL plus Preßburg (Bratislava) and Sopron (Sopron, Ágfalva, Harka, Fertőrákos, Kópháza) as its capital
*Tirol is OTL plus South Tirol from Italy
*Carinthia is the Duchy's size
*Styria is OTL state plus the areas I could glean were German-speaking after 1920's border adjustments (the names are on my other computer)
*Brandenburg is the province minus Greater Berlin
*Mecklenburg is Schwerin+Strelitz. I had no numbers for the exclaves, so I just added them together without subtracting the exclaves
*Silesia is the province plus Teschen and Troppau
*Hessen is the province plus Hesse-Nassau, plus Wetzlar district, minus Schmalkalden
*Rheinland is the Rhine province plus Birkenfeld minus Wetzlar
*Thüringen is the OTL Thuringian states plus Schleusingen, Schmalkalden, Ziegenrück, Erfurt, Langensalza, Weißensee, Eckartsberga, Mühlhausen Kreise
*Sachsen-Anhalt is Province Sachsen, Anhalt, Calvörde, Blankenburg, and subtracting the additional Kreise that went to Thüringen
*Brandenburg is what's left
*I had no information on the exclaves of the Mecklenburgs, Lübeck, or Pomerania to use to calculate. This is an approximation.
 

JJohnson

Banned
German Overseas Territories

Given earlier changes to the timeline, Germany continues to hold several overseas possessions:

Shanghai International Settlement and Tianjin settlement in concert with the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and the United States

Overseas Territories:

Agalega: 24 km2 (9.3 mi2); pop. 289.00
Kiautschou Bay concession: 560 km2 (216.217209 mi2); pop. 783,478.00
Mauritius: 2,040 km2 (787 mi2); pop. 1,291,456.00
Prussian Guiana: 226,348.59 km2 (87,394.02 mi2); pop. 904939
Reunion: 2,512 km2 (970 mi2); pop. 839,500.00
Seychelles: 451 km2 (174 mi2); pop. 84,000.00
Shamian Island 0.06 km2 (0.02316613 mi2); pop. 85

Friedrichshafen (Port Louis) city market, local street, bridge over the river.
Königsburg, in German Guiana, market, Neu-Danzig (Kourou) city hall, defensive tower, and neighborhoods outside the city center.
 
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JJohnson

Banned
Here's a map. It's based off the work of several others far more skilled than I am. I tried changing Bremen and Hamburg to their current borders, but I'm not sure the new areas (in black) are 100% correct, and Teschen isn't included. If anyone wants to do a better/larger/more accurate version, feel free :)
 
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