Greuthungi Gothic presence in the Pontic Steppe following the Hunnic invasion

Could the Greuthungi Goths somehow regain dominance of the Pontic Steppe following the decline of the Huns? How so?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ermanaric
Ermanaric (Gothic: *Aírmanareiks; Latin: Ermanaricus; Old English: Eormanrīc [ˈeormɑnriːtʃ]; Old Norse: Jǫrmunrekr [ˈjɔrmunrekr]; died 376) was a Greuthungian Gothic King who before the Hunnic invasion evidently ruled a sizable portion of Oium, the part of Scythia inhabited by the Goths at the time. He is mentioned in two Roman sources; the contemporary writings of Ammianus Marcellinus and in Getica by the 6th-century historian Jordanes. Modern historians disagree on the size of Ermanaric's realm. Herwig Wolfram postulates that he at one point ruled a realm stretching from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea as far eastwards as the Ural Mountains.[1] Peter Heather is skeptical of the claim that Ermanaric ruled all Goths except the Tervingi, and furthermore points to the fact that such an enormous empire would have been larger than any known Gothic political unit, that it would have left bigger traces in the sources and that the sources on which the claim is based are not nearly reliable enough to be taken at face value.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greuthungi
Creut or Kraut, means wheat or cerial growers and eaters, along with veg and herbs. Creuth-Hungi or Hangi, are a tribe along with Thervingi, used wood to heat pebbles or stones to cook Veg and meat by stacking it to be steamed, a Sauna is a housing used to for such activity as well as bathing or steaming fish. all nations of EuroAsia and japan ect use this method of cooking. "Greuthungi" may mean "steppe dwellers" or "people of the pebbly coasts".[1] The root greut- is probably related to the Old English greot, meaning "gravel, grit, earth" Polish grunt land, earth, ground [2] This is supported by evidence that geographic descriptors were commonly used to distinguish people living north of the Black Sea both before and after Gothic settlement there and by the lack of evidence for an earlier date for the name pair Tervingi-Greuthungi than the late third century.[3] It is also possible that the name "Greuthungi" has pre-Pontic Scandinavian origins.[3] It may mean "rock people", to distinguish the Ostrogoths from the Gauts(in what is today Sweden).[3] Jordanes does refer to an Evagreotingi (Greuthung island) in Scandza, but this may be legend. It has also been suggested that it may be related to certain place names in Poland, but this has met with little support.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernyakhov_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns
 
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It's not clear how much actual dominance Greuthungi really had on the Pontic Steppe : in spite of Jordanes' boasting about how Ostrogoths totally ruled the region, true story bro....There is not a lot of evidence to say the least, if any. It's quite possible, in fact likely, that the whole thing is about legitimazing Ostrogothic power and primacy in western Romania not only from their special relationship with Italian patricianship (and having Constantinople sending them back the imperial insigns) but having an influence on other Goths and Barbarians since a long time.

Now, after the Hunnic collapse, Greuthungi already moved from Pontic steppe (at the exception of a fairly limited population in Crimea). After the decline of the Huns (taking the Battle of Nedao as a marker) they were either dwelling in Pannonia (mixing with Radagast's Goths), Danubian basin and eventually did the same thing as everyone : rather than coming back to an hypothetical land, why not just enter in Romania and reap the benefit of a "mutually beneficial situation" (as in settling in Romania, entering in military service, demanding subsides, and taking every opportunity to advance their interest in the empire).

If you want Goths to remain in the Pontic steppe, you both need a stronger Roman Empire able to swallow up migrations in the IVth, no Hunnic hegemony (because that would mean Goths are moving either outside or inside Hunnic ensemble) at least.
 
It's not clear how much actual dominance Greuthungi really had on the Pontic Steppe : in spite of Jordanes' boasting about how Ostrogoths totally ruled the region, true story bro....There is not a lot of evidence to say the least, if any. It's quite possible, in fact likely, that the whole thing is about legitimazing Ostrogothic power and primacy in western Romania not only from their special relationship with Italian patricianship (and having Constantinople sending them back the imperial insigns) but having an influence on other Goths and Barbarians since a long time.

Now, after the Hunnic collapse, Greuthungi already moved from Pontic steppe (at the exception of a fairly limited population in Crimea). After the decline of the Huns (taking the Battle of Nedao as a marker) they were either dwelling in Pannonia (mixing with Radagast's Goths), Danubian basin and eventually did the same thing as everyone : rather than coming back to an hypothetical land, why not just enter in Romania and reap the benefit of a "mutually beneficial situation" (as in settling in Romania, entering in military service, demanding subsides, and taking every opportunity to advance their interest in the empire).

If you want Goths to remain in the Pontic steppe, you both need a stronger Roman Empire able to swallow up migrations in the IVth, no Hunnic hegemony (because that would mean Goths are moving either outside or inside Hunnic ensemble) at least.
Perhaps the Huns can quickly pass through the Pontic Steppe and into Europe while the Greuthungi stayed behind?
 
Perhaps the Huns can quickly pass through the Pontic Steppe and into Europe while the Greuthungi stayed behind?
I'm not sure how it would work, to be honest.

Remember that Hunnic advance wasn't made in one wave, but three or four, all of them passing trough Greuthungi chiefdoms, which definitely imply raiding and conflict.
It's not a given, that beind said, that Goths would fall into Hunnic dominance as entierely it happened IOTL, but I think it would still lead to migrating groups, ITTL less heteroclit maybe than Radagast's group in Pannonia and making Greuthungi's migration looking more like Vandals, Suevi or Alans; or, in the other hand, making them less distinct from Trevingi and mixing with them early on.

But I don't really see a reason why Huns would just ignore Goths in the region while their (and mostly everyone in the region) modus operandi is to forcefully integrated submitted people as to reinforce themselves, and why Goths would see no problem in Huns advancing in their territory looting and raiding it.

What do you have in mind for making this possible?
 
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I'm not sure how it would work, to be honest.

Remember that Hunnic advance wasn't made in one wave, but three or four, all of them passing trough Greuthungi chiefdoms, which definitely imply raiding and conflict.
It's not a given, that beind said, that Goths would fall into Hunnic dominance as entierely it happened IOTL, but I think it would still lead to migrating groups, ITTL less heteroclit maybe than Radagast's group in Pannonia and making Greuthungi's migration looking more like Vandals, Suevi or Alans; or, in the other hand, making them less distinct from Trevingi and mixing with them early on.

But I don't really see a reason why Huns would just ignore Goths in the region while their (and mostly everyone in the region) modus operandi is to forcefully integrated submitted people as to reinforce themselves, and why Goths would see no problem in Huns advancing in their territory looting and raiding it.

What do you have in mind for making this possible?
It depends on where exactly the Huns passed thru. How long the Huns stayed in different areas. What the Huns wanted. What the Huns Knew, did they know of and seek out the Roman Empire? Would the Huns pursue fights that was unnecessary? If the Huns goal was the Roman Empire, would they then go for a fight they did no need or have to fight. Also what land areas the huns ruled at different points in time.

hun.gif

Assuming the Huns followed this migration pattern that the picture depicts. If some Goths had moved out the Huns migratory route, could they escape. Let's say that some had headed for what is OTL Tatarstan.

Or could the Greuthungi simply avoid conflict while the Huns passed thru. Maybe they could have paid tribute? Maybe they could tell the Huns stories of Roman grandeur, and show items representing Roman wealth. One Goth may say "In Roman lands they have almost endless quantities of wine"!

Could the Greuthungi simply remain in the Pontic Steppe as Hunnic vassals? Later they could regain independance.



"But I don't really see a reason why Huns would just ignore Goths in the region while their (and mostly everyone in the region) modus operandi is to forcefully integrated submitted people as to reinforce themselves, and why Goths would see no problem in Huns advancing in their territory looting and raiding it."
Perhaps the Huns aswell as other hosts/hordes sought out easy fights as way of absorbing the people of other hosts/hordes or societies?
 
before we talk too much about barbarian migrations such as the Goths and Huns, I feel I must point out that those two groups only achieved ethnogenesis as a result of them working as foederati under the Romans. Regarding them as anything more than several miscellaneous groups of tribes before then is a bit much, hell the /huns' very name comes from the latin word hunni or 'dogs' and the Roman general Flavius Aetius who all but ruled the West for a time spent time as a hostage among them.
 
It depends on where exactly the Huns passed thru
Well they passed the Volga as your map depict, but it forgets an important parts as Huns briefly stayed in Caucasian region, forcing Alans to either move or be part of Hunnic ensemble, which brang another pressure on Greuthingi.

How long the Huns stayed in different areas.
It's generally assumed Huns went on the western side of Volga around 375, raiding up to the shores of Black Sea and crossing Caucasus around 395 having emptied their neighborhood. Then another Hunnic wave from modern Ukraine led to Hunnic presence around 400 up to Lower Danube, and from there a slow move leading their power centers being more localised in Middle Danube.

What the Huns wanted.
Huns seems to have adopted, as most Barbarians, a hugely militarised way-of-life since the IVth century at least, meaning their lived on pastoralism and raiding alike. What they wanted leave little doubt to imagination : it was either loot, subside or tribute. And these weren't mutually exclusive.

What the Huns Knew, did they know of and seek out the Roman Empire?
It would be quite fantastic they wouldn't know about it: we're talking of the great superpower of the time, whom rumors touched as far as China. Even if Huns, by some happenstance, ignored everything about it, they quickly realized it existed and raided Armenia and Anatolia in the late 390's trough Caucasus.

Would the Huns pursue fights that was unnecessary?
They weren't unecessary : it was how they lived in search of loot and power build-up, without really being a departure from other steppe chiefdoms.

If the Huns goal was the Roman Empire
Less the Roman Empire itself, than the wealth it provided directly or undirectly : other Barbarians were either easy targets or rivals to be dealt with. Note they could do both, as hinted by the raids of the 390's both in Danube and Caucasus.

If some Goths had moved out the Huns migratory route, could they escape. Let's say that some had headed for what is OTL Tatarstan.
Many groups of Greuthingi did moved out IOTL, probably leading up to groups as Radagast's Goths. It's just that if you were to refugee yourself, while keeping enough of your way-of-life, you'd rather go to the place that looks richer and safer, rather than some God-forgotten place closer to your ennemies.

Or could the Greuthungi simply avoid conflict while the Huns passed thru.
We're talking of settled chiefdoms seen as easy targets by Huns. Not nomadic Goths that just had to take their tents and wagons with them.

Maybe they could have paid tribute?
With what? Their wealth came in no small part from the relations with Romans : if Huns deprive them of this, their only tribute is...well, themselves and entering in Hunnic hegemony.

Could the Greuthungi simply remain in the Pontic Steppe as Hunnic vassals? Later they could regain independance.
Some likely did, but I wouldn't see this happening in a large scale : Huns didn't integrated Goths in their own complex networks and chiefdoms for the kick of it, but as well as part of a general reinforcement of their military resources : Goths moved with them.
It's I think pretty much important to remember that dominance and hegemonic networks in Barbaricum (and as well for Barbarians within Romania) weren't as much based on territories than on populations and personal hierarchic relations.

Perhaps the Huns aswell as other hosts/hordes sought out easy fights as way of absorbing the people of other hosts/hordes or societies?
That and raiding results as well perpetuation of a militarized way-of-life.
 
, I feel I must point out that those two groups only achieved ethnogenesis as a result of them working as foederati under the Romans.
While I mostly *agree with you about Goths (see the other thread about Barbarians in Romania) Huns didn't went trough such institutional and social build-up trough beingf ederation status but trough Roman subsides and tributes, allowing a devellopment of mobilisation devices (trough reinforcement of a militarized aristocracy and redistribution among dominated hierarchies) thanks to decades of raiding and mercenariate in service of Rome against foederati. When this ended up, Hunnic hegemony quicky collapsed and the Hunnic foedi in Byzantium didn't really outlived Hunnic chiefdoms north of Danube.

*Mostly because they did formed as a people as a result of Roman border, and went trough a chiefdom build-up before the late IVth century. Now it's true that Goths as we know them from the IVth and Vth century are essentially the product of their relations to Romans within Romania, but they did formed ensemble of their own (trough Roman influence) before.

hell the /huns' very name comes from the latin word hunni or 'dogs'
That seems excessively debatable : I never went into a sole occurence of Hunni to name anything other than Huns. If anything it might be a borrowed name from old Persian trough Greek.
 
Well they passed the Volga as your map depict, but it forgets an important parts as Huns briefly stayed in Caucasian region, forcing Alans to either move or be part of Hunnic ensemble, which brang another pressure on Greuthingi.

Many groups of Greuthingi did moved out IOTL, probably leading up to groups as Radagast's Goths. It's just that if you were to refugee yourself, while keeping enough of your way-of-life, you'd rather go to the place that looks richer and safer, rather than some God-forgotten place closer to your ennemies.
The Crimean Goths of OTL did descend from Greuthungi. They also existed as lingusitic culture in Crimea for centuries after the Huns had passed through. Perhaps there could have been more holdouts like the Crimean Goths?
We're talking of settled chiefdoms seen as easy targets by Huns. Not nomadic Goths that just had to take their tents and wagons with them.
Could the Greuthungi or part of the Greuthingi adopt a nomadic steppe lifestyle?
 
The Crimean Goths of OTL did descend from Greuthungi. They also existed as lingusitic culture in Crimea for centuries after the Huns had passed through. Perhaps there could have been more holdouts like the Crimean Goths?

Could the Greuthungi or part of the Greuthingi adopt a nomadic steppe lifestyle?
Didn't they do that already as they intermixed with the Sarmatians?
 
The Crimean Goths of OTL did descend from Greuthungi. They also existed as lingusitic culture in Crimea for centuries after the Huns had passed through. Perhaps there could have been more holdouts like the Crimean Goths?

Could the Greuthungi or part of the Greuthingi adopt a nomadic steppe lifestyle?

They already had, if was what made them distinct from the Goths in Romania (the ancestors of the Visigoths).
 
The Crimean Goths of OTL did descend from Greuthungi. They also existed as lingusitic culture in Crimea for centuries after the Huns had passed through. Perhaps there could have been more holdouts like the Crimean Goths?
It's really hard to know if we can consider Crimean Gothic as a linguistical culture : there's no real sign of its survival past the Xth century altough it remained as a social identity much later until the Late Middle-Ages (Busbecq's account being possibly misleading there, calling Gothic what might quite possibly having been a western Germanic speech carried by medieval settlers, with a possible Gothic substrate).
Thing is Crimean highlands plus imperial presence allowed this Gothic identity (social and/or territorial) to survive among what was a mess of a lot of various identities unable to take the dominant lead in the same region. While I'm the opinion that not only you could have had more isolates but probably more of these existed IOTL we don't know about (either intermixing with other Barbarians, either dying out anonymously) it required some distinct happenstance that could be replicated, but without guarantee of an actual continuity between Greuthungi and "Pontic Goths".

Of course you could say, and be entierely right doing so, you didn't have much of a continuity between Franks of the IVth and Francia in the Xth safe a sense of self-identity : then, hellenized/steppized/isolated Crimean Goths could be indeed an exemple of what could happen.

A good PoD could be preventing Ostrogoths to really emerge after the collapse of Hunnic hegemony, preveting their regional "unifications" (possibly from dynastical dynamics) having them more either integrated in broader Barbarian ensembles, either as pocket isolates.
Still, the problem remains where in Pontic steppe such isolated could thrive (highlands being really useful, as well "protection" from a larger ensemble); and I wouldn't really see these being more successful than in Crimea.

Could the Greuthungi or part of the Greuthingi adopt a nomadic steppe lifestyle?
I don't really see this happening for all of Greuthungi, not without a major catastrophe forcing them to do so : one could argue that their movements within Romania had a nomadic character it's true, but we're more talking of a long migration between various provincial settlements where they could enjoy revenues from (there's the case of Vandals effectively settling not as much from revenues but landowning, but that's a marked exception).
Now, it might what have happened with part of Greuthungi IOTL, but they joined more closely their Hunnic hegemons rather than forming groups of their own, and "Germanising" Huns (for exemple, Attilla is a Gothic (nick)name)

They already had, if was what made them distinct from the Goths in Romania (the ancestors of the Visigoths).
What made them distinct was probably more a political differenciation (possibly built on lineages and their cultural substrates/adstrates) that was increased trough their integration within Hunnic ensemble, I'd rather think.
 
It's really hard to know if we can consider Crimean Gothic as a linguistical culture : there's no real sign of its survival past the Xth century altough it remained as a social identity much later until the Late Middle-Ages (Busbecq's account being possibly misleading there, calling Gothic what might quite possibly having been a western Germanic speech carried by medieval settlers, with a possible Gothic substrate).
Thing is Crimean highlands plus imperial presence allowed this Gothic identity (social and/or territorial) to survive among what was a mess of a lot of various identities unable to take the dominant lead in the same region. While I'm the opinion that not only you could have had more isolates but probably more of these existed IOTL we don't know about (either intermixing with other Barbarians, either dying out anonymously) it required some distinct happenstance that could be replicated, but without guarantee of an actual continuity between Greuthungi and "Pontic Goths".
According to Jared Diamond there really was a East Germanic language in Crimea that was recorded by Busbecq.

Jared Diamond writes: "Even though our sample of Crimean Gothic is so small, it suffices to demonstrate that the language was closer to Wulfila’s Visigothic than to either old or modern German--so those Crimeans could not have been descendants of medieval German immigrants. This conclusion is also supported by the similarity of the Crimean and Visigothic words for the numerals `2’ through `10’. Citing the Crimean first and the Visigothic second in each case, they are as follows: 2/tua/twa, 3/tria/thria, 4/fyder/fidwor, 5/fynf/fymf, 6/seis/saihs, 7/seuene/sibun, 8/athe/ahtaw, 9/nyne/niun, 10/thiine/taihun."
https://pseudoerasmus.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/diamond_death-of-languages.pdf

I have read that the Crimean Goths assimilated to other ethnic and linguistic cultures. Among them Crimean Tatars and Crimean Greeks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatar_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urums
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urum_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_Greek

I have seen it claimed that Crimean Gothic surivived as a 'haussprach' till 1945, but i have not seen any evidence for it. Most seem to believe that by 1780 the Crimean Gothic language had stopped being used.
 
According to Jared Diamond there really was a East Germanic language in Crimea that was recorded by Busbecq.
Both aren't hugely reliable sources, really.
Busbecq had no direct contact with Gothic speakers (while one identified himself as a Goth, he didn't spoke it or the language recorded by Busbecq), and while what he gathered is definitely looking like a Germanic dialect, there isn't much to associate it with Gothic (altough I wholly agree the similarity with western Germanic may comes , at least partially, from his own linguistic background), altough with quite possibly other Germanic substrates.

Diamond, besides not being specialist of the question, does have an history of pulling nonsense when it's convenient for his thesis.

Overall, tough, I've more consideration for Busbecq that I think did his best accounting for a particular Germanic dialect in Crimea, with a possible influence from Gothic IMO. In this case, it's rather a matter of interpretation.

I have seen it claimed that Crimean Gothic surivived as a 'haussprach' till 1945, but i have not seen any evidence for it
Mostly nationalist or, in the kindest interpretation, romanticist hogwash.

Most seem to believe that by 1780 the Crimean Gothic language had stopped being used.
All we have as clear evidence doesn't go further than Xth : everything past it is at best debatable IMO.
At the very least, Gothic language survival past the Early Middle Ages isn't an established fact.

(Altough Gothic identity certainly did, at least partially : but it doesn't imply at the latest a linguistical survival, unless arguing that because Goth was used as an territorial name up the XIth in Languedoc means they were speaking Gothic up to this point)
 
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Both aren't hugely reliable sources, really.
Busbecq had no direct contact with Gothic speakers, and what he amassed looks like western Germanic speechs (altough I wholly agree the similarity comes at least partially from his own linguistic background), altough with quite possibly other Germanic substrates.
Diamond, besides not being specialist of the question, does have an history of pulling nonsense when it's convenient for his thesis.
Busbecq reportedly had contact with and L2 Crimean Gothic speaker. This speaker was a Greek who had learned the language. The Greek Gothic speaker was also accompanied by a Goth who did not speak Gothic.

All we have as clear evidence doesn't go further than Xth : everything past it is at best debatable IMO.
In 1780, Stanisław Siestrzeńcewicz-Bohusz, an Archbishop of Mogilev, visited the southern coast of Crimea and Sevastopol. According to his account, he met some Tatars who spoke a language similar to Plattdeutsch; this was probably a form of Crimean Gothic.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Gothic#Extinction
 
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Busbecq reportedly had contact with and L2 Crimean Gothic speaker.
He didn't: he spoke with a Greek that spoke a Germanic language practiced in the region, and the Goth that spoke Greek.

Again, it should be FIRST proven or at least hypothetised enough that this Germanic speech as linguistically Gothic (and not a Germanic speech called Gothic, unless we consider that French is Germanic because it shares a name with Frankish).
Considering it have to be Gothic because reasons is an act of faith more than a scientific reasoning, fueled by centuries of linguistical romanticism/nationalism.

Gratituous affirmation, and that's not exactly what the text says (altough there's certainly a connection made by the author).

"Tatars that spoke Low German" =/= "Tatars that spoke Gothic". Unless interpretating this part with the firm belief that Gothic was used in the XVIIIth century, as hinted by the "fact" Tatars spoke Gothic.

Roughly translating the text (I'm really not good in German, so feel free to correct me as I had to use Google trad and dictionnaries), it says something like this
In the southern overhang (Crimea) [I'm not sure what hernm stands for, so I pass this part] where History tells us Goths lived, there's few spots where Tatars' own language is similar to Low German, I've even understood some in Mangup [Mangut?]. [...] They don't really know which language they're talking and tells only that they were originally Christians and not Muslims

So what we have there?
A language that looks like Low German that the archbishop is actually able to understand (probably out of his journey in western Europe and contact with Germans settled in Russia) You know how the saying goes : if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there's few chances this is a goose we're talking about.

I wonder how much the contributor in Wikipedia had to be desesperate to find something, anything, that he had to other choice than pulling something from the prehistory of linguistics and ethnology AND to consider it acritically (even, I won't say making up, but at least not quoting quite exactly the text,) to support his claims.

Frankly, if we have to consider wikipedia, I'd advise you to take a look at a less than firm paragraph there.
Identification and classification
While the initial identification of this language as "Gothic" probably rests on ethnological rather than linguistic grounds — that is, the speakers were identified as Goths, and therefore the language must be Gothic — it appears to share a number of distinctive phonological developments with the Gothic of Ulfilas' Bible. For example, the word ada 'egg' shows the typical Gothic "sharpening" of Proto-Germanic *-jj- to -ddj- (as in Ulfilian Gothic iddja "went" from PGmc. *ijjē), being from Proto-Germanic *ajja-.

There are also examples of features preserved in Crimean Gothic and Biblical Gothic but which have undergone changes in West and North Germanic. For example, both Crimean Gothic and Biblical Gothic preserve Germanic /z/ as a sibilant, while it became /r/ in all other Germanic dialects: Crimean Gothic ies and Biblical Gothic is vs. German er, all meaning 'he'. Also, Crimean Gothic and Biblical Gothic both preserve the medial -d- in their reflexes of Proto-Germanic *fedwōr (stem *fedur-) 'four': fyder in the former and fidwōr in the latter. This -d- is lost in all North and West Germanic languages, which have forms descending from *fewōr or *feur: Old English fēower, Old Saxon fiuwar, Old High German fior, Old Norse fjórir.

However, there are problems in assuming that Crimean Gothic simply represents a later stage in the development of the Gothic attested in Ulfilas' Bible. Some innovations in Biblical Gothic are not found in Crimean Gothic. For example:

  • Crimean Gothic preserves Germanic /e/, whereas in Biblical Gothic it has become /i/, e.g. Crimean Gothic reghen and suuester vs. Biblical Gothic rign and swistar
  • Crimean Gothic preserves Germanic /u/ before /r/, whereas Biblical Gothic has /ɔ/, e.g. Crimean Gothic vvurt vs. Biblical Gothic waurþi.
However, there also seem to be developments similar to those that occurred in varieties of West Germanic, such as the change of /θ/ to a stop, possibly exhibited in Crimean Gothic tria (cf. Biblical Gothic þriu). Several historical accounts mention similarity of Crimean Gothic to Low German, as well as the intelligibility of Crimean Gothic to German speakers, with the Dutch-speaking Busbecq's account being by far the most important.

There are two alternative solutions: that Crimean Gothic presents a separate branch of East Germanic, distinct from Ulfilas' Gothic; or that Crimean Gothic is actually descended from the dialect of West Germanic settlers who migrated to the Crimea in the early Middle Ages and whose language was subsequently influenced by Gothic. Both of these possibilities were first suggested in the 19th century and are most recently argued by Stearns and Grønvik, respectively. While there is no consensus on a definitive solution to this problem, it is accepted that Crimean Gothic is not a descendant of Biblical Gothic.

The song recorded by Busbecq is less obviously Germanic and has proved impossible to interpret definitively. There is no consensus as to whether it is actually in Crimean Gothic.
 
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He didn't: he spoke with a Greek that spoke a Germanic language practiced in the region, and the Goth that spoke Greek.
I know. I misspelled 'speaker', instead i worte 'speak', maybe that is why you mistook it. That Greek was a L2 Gothic speaker or L-something Gothis speaker as he had learned Gothic, Gothic was not his L1 tongue.


So what we have there?
A language that looks like Low German that the archbishop is actually able to understand (probably out of his journey in western Europe and contact with Germans settled in Russia) You know how the saying goes : if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there's few chances this is a goose we're talking about.
I wonder how much the contributor in Wikipedia had to be desesperate to find something, anything, that he had to other choice than pulling something from the prehistory of linguistics and ethnology AND to consider it acritically (even, I won't say making up, but at least not quoting quite exactly the text,) to support his claims.
There is not much information regarding the Crimean Goths, but most do seem to believe that they existed.

Some more recent evidence of a Gothic language in Crimea has come in the form of graffiti.
https://benjamins.com/catalog/nowele.00013.vin

Identification and classification
While the initial identification of this language as "Gothic" probably rests on ethnological rather than linguistic grounds — that is, the speakers were identified as Goths, and therefore the language must be Gothic — it appears to share a number of distinctive phonological developments with the Gothic of Ulfilas' Bible. For example, the word ada 'egg' shows the typical Gothic "sharpening" of Proto-Germanic *-jj- to -ddj- (as in Ulfilian Gothic iddja "went" from PGmc. *ijjē), being from Proto-Germanic *ajja-.

There are also examples of features preserved in Crimean Gothic and Biblical Gothic but which have undergone changes in West and North Germanic. For example, both Crimean Gothic and Biblical Gothic preserve Germanic /z/ as a sibilant, while it became /r/ in all other Germanic dialects: Crimean Gothic ies and Biblical Gothic is vs. German er, all meaning 'he'. Also, Crimean Gothic and Biblical Gothic both preserve the medial -d- in their reflexes of Proto-Germanic *fedwōr (stem *fedur-) 'four': fyder in the former and fidwōr in the latter. This -d- is lost in all North and West Germanic languages, which have forms descending from *fewōr or *feur: Old English fēower, Old Saxon fiuwar, Old High German fior, Old Norse fjórir.

However, there are problems in assuming that Crimean Gothic simply represents a later stage in the development of the Gothic attested in Ulfilas' Bible. Some innovations in Biblical Gothic are not found in Crimean Gothic. For example:

  • Crimean Gothic preserves Germanic /e/, whereas in Biblical Gothic it has become /i/, e.g. Crimean Gothic reghen and suuester vs. Biblical Gothic rign and swistar
  • Crimean Gothic preserves Germanic /u/ before /r/, whereas Biblical Gothic has /ɔ/, e.g. Crimean Gothic vvurt vs. Biblical Gothic waurþi.
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Perhaps there was a spoken form of Gothic and a litterary form of Gothic?
However, there also seem to be developments similar to those that occurred in varieties of West Germanic, such as the change of /θ/ to a stop, possibly exhibited in Crimean Gothic tria (cf. Biblical Gothic þriu). Several historical accounts mention similarity of Crimean Gothic to Low German, as well as the intelligibility of Crimean Gothic to German speakers, with the Dutch-speaking Busbecq's account being by far the most important.
Just because there is mutual intelligibillity between two languages does not mean that they are the same. It could mean that they have common lingusitc roots.
Mutual intelligibility. In linguistics, mutual intelligibility is a relationship between languages or dialects in which speakers of different but related varieties can readily understand each other without prior familiarity or special effort.

While several people have mentioned Crimean Goths, Busbecq is one of the few if not the only that brings any evidence.
There are two alternative solutions: that Crimean Gothic presents a separate branch of East Germanic, distinct from Ulfilas' Gothic; or that Crimean Gothic is actually descended from the dialect of West Germanic settlers who migrated to the Crimea in the early Middle Ages and whose language was subsequently influenced by Gothic. Both of these possibilities were first suggested in the 19th century and are most recently argued by Stearns and Grønvik, respectively. While there is no consensus on a definitive solution to this problem, it is accepted that Crimean Gothic is not a descendant of Biblical Gothic.
Crimean Gothic may have diverged from other Gothic languages early or late. The divergence might have started before the Gothic migrations, during the Gothic migrations, in the early medieval period, in the high medieval period, in the late medieval period, etc. Languages do evolve, therefore it is not unreasonable to think that Crimean Gothic has evolved too. If a Gothic language were spoken in Crimea during Busbecq's lifetime, it would probably have some similarities to Gothic languages of the past, while still being somewhat different.
There are two alternative solutions: that Crimean Gothic presents a separate branch of East Germanic, distinct from Ulfilas' Gothic; or that Crimean Gothic is actually descended from the dialect of West Germanic settlers who migrated to the Crimea in the early Middle Ages and whose language was subsequently influenced by Gothic. Both of these possibilities were first suggested in the 19th century and are most recently argued by Stearns and Grønvik, respectively. While there is no consensus on a definitive solution to this problem, it is accepted that Crimean Gothic is not a descendant of Biblical Gothic.
If the so called Crimean Goths were descended from Low German West Germanic settlers who were influenced by Gothic, how would Gothic influence them in the first place? Would not the Low German speakers have to meet some Gothic speakers? Thus suggesting that there was some speakers of Gothic in Crimea.
The song recorded by Busbecq is less obviously Germanic and has proved impossible to interpret definitively. There is no consensus as to whether it is actually in Crimean Gothic.
Maybe the song was another language that Crimean Gothic? Maybe the song had vocabulary of mixed Gothic and non-Gothic origin? Maybe Gothic really had diverged as much as to make it not understandable to modern scholars?

https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/gotol/100
Crimean Gothic (CG) is the name given to the language thought to be the dying throes of the East Germanic branch of languages. All that remains of this language is some hundred words copied in a letter of the diplomat Ogier Ghislain de Busbecq. The words so transmitted are similar enough to those of the Biblical Gothic (BG) of Wulfila's translation that scholars are in general agreement that the language in question is indeed Gothic, but there are some differences which suggest it may not be the later surviving form of BG itself. It may have formed a separate member of the East Germanic family, perhaps representing the language of another of the many Gothic tribal factions, but one whose literary records have not survived to the present day.

Busbecq himself was a highly educated man of Flanders, born in 1522 in the town of Comines (Komen). His father was a nobleman and secured for him an excellent education. He began at the University of Louvain in Brabant when he became thirteen, and then continued his education in Paris, Venice, Bologna, and Padua.

Busbecq eventually accepted an appointment in 1554 as an ambassador of Ferdinand I of Austria, who was later to become Holy Roman Emperor (1558-1564). In this appointment, Busbecq was charged with negotiating a peace treaty with the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman I, 'the Magnificent'. In early 1555 Busbecq travelled to the Ottoman empire, and returned to Vienna that summer to deliver a letter from Suleiman I to Charles V, then Holy Roman Emperor. He subsequently returned to Constantinople in 1556 and remained in the region for the next seven years as Ferdinand I succeeded to the throne of the Holy Roman empire. He eventually negotiated a treaty with the Ottoman empire and returned to Vienna in 1562, then continuing to Frankfurt to present the treaty to Ferdinand.

Busbecq was subsequently knighted and continued to serve the imperial family in various political roles. In late 1592, then working in France, Busbecq took some time away from his service to visit his homeland. As he travelled through Normandy, he was seized by a group of soldiers, but set free the next day. Unfortunately, he quickly took ill and died on the 28th of October, 1592.

Busbecq had the reputation of being a man of many languages. Some biographers claim he had a native command of Flemish, Latin, Italian, Spanish, French, German, and 'Slavic'. What is meant by the last is not exactly clear. Flemish was of course his native tongue, and his education evidently provided for a firm grasp of Latin, as the letter shows. He spent time at universities in Italy, where he was likely to have developed a command of Italian; and it is certain from surviving letters in French that he had a command of that language as well. Early in his career he was attaché to Ferdinand's representative Pedro de Castilla, so it is likely that he acquired some proficiency in Spanish. We also know that, while in Turkey, Busbecq had a habit of copying Greek and Latin inscriptions. It is therefore likely that he was acquainted with Classical Greek, though evidently not with Modern Greek. He also explains some Turkish words in his letters, so he may have had an acquaintance with this language as well. It is also quite possible that he had learned German while in service in Vienna.

Sometime during his second and longer stay in Constantinople, Busbecq had occasion to meet with two envoys from the Crimea. One was evidently a native speaker of a Germanic language of the region, the other a native Greek speaker who had learned the Germanic language in question. From what Busbecq says, it appears that the Germanic speaker had lost much of his ability with his native tongue due to constant interaction with Greek speakers, and the Greek speaker evidently turned out to be the more competent in the Germanic language. From the letter it is unfortunately unclear as to which one of the gentlemen actually supplied the linguistic data. Most scholars are of the opinion that it was the native Greek speaker, a source of much consternation to present-day linguists because of the fact that his native tongue presumably interfered with his ability in the Germanic language. Neither is it clear what medium was employed in the interview: whether Busbecq interrogated the gentlemen directly (what language would he use for this?), or by means of interpreters (presumably via Greek). The letter raises as many questions as it answers.

Busbecq was certainly no newcomer to linguistic pursuits, and his letter clearly shows that he had an interest in investigating rare linguistic gems should occasion arise. Some of the modern scholarly literature has faulted Busbecq for his poor habits as a 'linguistic fieldworker', failing to employ a phonetically accurate orthography, failing to be consistent in orthographic practice, failing to identify the recorded forms clearly, failing to note the circumstances and method of his linguistic interview -- the list continues. But this should not be a surprise, since the data was collected sometime between 1555 and 1562, centuries before the advent of modern linguistic practices. For a man who was actually employed to negotiate a peace treaty between empires, we are lucky that he took the time he did to produce what may be the last surviving record of the East Germanic family of languages.
 
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Some more recent evidence of a Gothic language in Crimea has come in the form of graffiti.
https://benjamins.com/catalog/nowele.00013.vin
https://benjamins.com/catalog/nowele.00013.vin
I think there might be a misunderstaning : I never said Crimean Gothic didn't existed, and I specifically mentioned these graffiti both in this threads and in PM.

The thing is they date from either IXth or Xth century, and they're the last solid evidence of an eastern Germanic language in the region.

Just because there is mutual intelligibillity between two languages does not mean that they are the same. It could mean that they have common lingusitc roots.
True, but the difference between western Germanic and eastern Germanic speeches were already clear by the Vth century: we're not considering an isolate from the same language somehow evolving in the same way than its cognates up to the XVIIIth century, we're talking about an Eastern Germanic language living in quasi-isolation from other Germanic speeches somehow ending up sounding like, not just German, but Low German and undergoing trough same evolution that West Germanic languages went trough.

At some point, it's really simpler to consider that, while you had a survival of Crimean Gothic up to the Xth (maybe later, but there's no evidence to say when exactly : somewhere between the Xth and the XVth isn't technically wrong but not helpful), what was recorded in the XVIth and afterward was a form of German.

While several people have mentioned Crimean Goths, Busbecq is one of the few if not the only that brings any evidence.
Busbeq does provides records, not evidence; there's a huge difference. What he put looks really like a form of western Germanic spoken by people that identified themselves as Goths. Taking is as granted would be considering that medieval Sweden language was actually Gothic, because it was spoken by people identifiying themselves as Gutar.
I can't be clearer that self-identification and linguistical classification are two different concepts.

Crimean Gothic may have diverged from other Gothic languages early or late.
To the point sounding and looking like a western Germanic language undergoing same evolution on its own, without contact from western Germanic's? It's really unlikely.
If I could make a comparison, it would be like arguing that an hypothetical Pontic Aromanian could have diverged on its own, in isolation, and somehow ending up at sounding and looking as Galician by random chance. It's not a perfect analogy of course, as Romance languages are closer to each other than West and East Germanic.

If the so called Crimean Goths were descended from Low German West Germanic settlers who were influenced by Gothic, how would Gothic influence them in the first place?
There's the legend of Nova Anglia, about late Anglo-Saxons fleeing Norman England to settle in Black Sea, for exemple. While the tale itself isn't to be taken at face value, it's known there was a tradition of military service not just from Scandinavians, but Englishmen or Germans increasingly from the Xth century (to the point Varangian guard was probably not as much Scandinavian than English in some regards).
Giving enough credence to NA account, not as much as an independent colony, but as Anglo-Saxons being settled there, it could be an exemple of such settlement which would operate on a Crimean Gothic substrate.

Now I wouldn't rule out the possibility of contemporary or later small scale movements and German migration in Crimea happening earlier than the XVIIIth century (which concerned a different region of Crimea anyway) but I think that the resolution of the problem might be related to the military and political realities of Byzantine Empire and this peripheral area.
The use of Gothic as a possible liturgical/ceremonial language during the early periods, may have played (it did survived on this form longer than its actual use in Barbarian kingdoms westwards, without much actual influence tough, due to the sheer pressure of Latin)

Would not the Low German speakers have to meet some Gothic speakers? Thus suggesting that there was some speakers of Gothic in Crimea.
Again, if you read my posts, you'd see that I never said there was no such thing as Crimean Gothic : just that assuming its survival beyond the Middle-Ages because Busbeq called what he recorded Gothic (when it's at best NOT obvious it is) is an act of faith, not a scientific demonstration.
Of course you must have a Gothic substrate working there.

Maybe the song was another language that Crimean Gothic? Maybe the song had vocabulary of mixed Gothic and non-Gothic origin? Maybe Gothic really had diverged as much as to make it not understandable to modern scholars?
All are more or less equally likely, tough it's possible the latter two could have something : an isolated German speech with strong and various substrates and adstrates (not just Gothic, but Turkic, Northern Germanic, Greek, Bulgarian, Russian, etc.) may have led to quite the interesting metissed speech.
 
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