Greek Empire, Divided Turkey

In 1918, after the end of hostilities with the Ottoman Empire, the British were in favor of helping Greece create a "New Greek Empire", including handing over the historically Greek area of the West Coast of Asia Minor and Ottoman Thrace. Now, say the Turkish War of Independence, and Mustafa Kemal, had failed, with Greek dominance of Western Asia Minor, Armenian independence, and various French and English Mandates over parts of Asia Minor dividing Turkey similar to the way they divided the Middle East. What effect would this have on the Russian Revolution (due to the new Mandates' proximity to Russia), the Second World War, and the Cold War?

Forgot to put a link to the wikipedia article... you know.. considering how wikipedia is notoriously infallible, all-knowing, and never wrong...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence
 
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It's been at least a day or two since someone has carved up Turkey in a way that results in Genocide. I was beginning to miss it.
 
Oi, I feel like an idiot. Haha, I haven't been on the forums in prolly a year or so with any regularity, maybe longer, and I tried to read back but yeahhh, I think I missed a few... dozen.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
In 1918, after the end of hostilities with the Ottoman Empire, the British were in favor of helping Greece create a "New Greek Empire", including handing over the historically Greek area of the West Coast of Asia Minor and Ottoman Thrace. Now, say the Turkish War of Independence, and Mustafa Kemal, had failed, with Greek dominance of Western Asia Minor, Armenian independence, and various French and English Mandates over parts of Asia Minor dividing Turkey similar to the way they divided the Middle East. What effect would this have on the Russian Revolution (due to the new Mandates' proximity to Russia), the Second World War, and the Cold War?

Forgot to put a link to the wikipedia article... you know.. considering how wikipedia is notoriously infallible, all-knowing, and never wrong...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence

Err. You know that those areas are all...Turkish, right?
 

Baskilisk

Banned
Err. You know that those areas are all...Turkish, right?
Like the British, French, and or Greeks cared?
Oh, my fondest dream from here forth will be Hitler asking you if he should invade France, and you say, "Er, you know that area is all...French, right?"

And then we all laugh and laugh...
And he kills you.
 
Like the British, French, and or Greeks cared?
Oh, my fondest dream from here forth will be Hitler asking you if he should invade France, and you say, "Er, you know that area is all...French, right?"

And then we all laugh and laugh...
And he kills you.

You think the British and French are equal to Hitler's Germany?

Maybe when it came to Muslims a little bit, but they certainly folded fast once it became clear the Turks intended to fight for what remained of their homeland.

The fundamental problem with these scenarios is that there were a lot more Turks than Greeks, and the Turks were way better fighters with a lot more combat experience - 12 years of continuous experience. With regard to Armenia, there were no Armenians at all in Eastern Turkey, and Armenia had the USSR on the other side of it. Attacking Turkey was just a bad idea, but you can blame Wilson for his ludicrously large award of territory. Check out that map! Even before the war Armenians were a tiny minority in that region. If they had been given a more realistic slice, the Turks might have just shrugged it off in light of higher priorities.... Anyway, it says something about the perceived Armenian threat level that the Turks completely ignored the Armenians and concentrated on kicking out the Greek army.

The Greeks correctly perceived that there was no way to maintain a coastal enclave so long as there was a Turkish power on the Anatolian plateau - so they tried to destroy it, which is one of the great examples of overreach - launching an offensive into mountainous territory against a superior enemy, on their home turf.

If the Powers had seriously tried to conquer Asia Minor, they probably could have, but that would have been politically impossible, not to mention stupid and pointless, as it would just have thrown Turkey into the hands of the Soviets.
 

Baskilisk

Banned
That wasn't me trying to make the Allies look like badasses, that was me poking fun of this Nietzsche fellow. I don't know him, but his name gave me an initial bias...
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Like the British, French, and or Greeks cared?
Oh, my fondest dream from here forth will be Hitler asking you if he should invade France, and you say, "Er, you know that area is all...French, right?"

And then we all laugh and laugh...
And he kills you.
Not what I meant. Hitler had strategic reasons to take the area, and the populations of Germany and France were...well, there were more Germans than French. Greece is a tiny nation with not nearly enough manpower, if they did, by some act of Cthulhu, conquer those areas, they would be bled white.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Not what I meant. Hitler had strategic reasons to take the area, and the populations of Germany and France were...well, there were more Germans than French. Greece is a tiny nation with not nearly enough manpower, if they did, by some act of Cthulhu, conquer those areas, they would be bled white.

Quite true, the Greek wanted an Empire with Greek population, no Turks, the Turks would be forced to leave by gunpoint.

Anyway, that was unfortunately how all groups in Anatolia behaved at the time.
 
Constantinople

The Greeks wanted Constantinople back more than anything, as a cultural "center" of Greek cultur, past and present. How long would it take them to completely get rid of Turkish culture from the city once captured? Would they go so far as to do so? Or, would they allow Islam to maintain a presence in the city and surrounding countryside alongside a reasserted Orthodox Christianity? Would they "recolonize" areas with Greeks? How would they retake and pacify the formerly Turkish areas with as little bloodshed as possible?
 
If the Powers had seriously tried to conquer Asia Minor, they probably could have, but that would have been politically impossible, not to mention stupid and pointless, as it would just have thrown Turkey into the hands of the Soviets.

Dont think so... in 1918-1922 Russia had sunk into civil war between Whites and Reds... They wouldnt care about some silly war in Turkey... I dont know for the future though...
 
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