Greeco-Turkish War in 1974

nastle

Banned
Full scale war between greece and Turkey after Turkish "operation Atilla"
what are the options ?
Greek slavs helped by warsaw pact and USSR
Greece withdraws from NATO
USA is neutral but backs Turkey covertly
 

rohala

Banned
There were two turkish operations and one greek coup prior to them in Cyprus. The coup (15 July) was condemned internationally (even if it was initially supported by USA, they eventually supported Turkey, when it failed and began to evolve into civil war among Greek-Cypriots). When Turkey invaded Cyprus (20 July) Greece mobilized for war but was diplomatically isolated. Moreover Greece's mobilization needed time and a UN-sanctioned cease-fire came into effect after 3 days of war in Cyprus (22 July). By the second turkish operation (14 August) diplomatic support shifted in favor of Greece. Greece was heavily pressured by USA not to declare war. Moreover, it was recognized in the Greek war council, that Greece could achieve only minor gains in Thrace (Karaagac salient) and with heavy casualties, and not be able to help Cyprus. So, in the end, Greece would have failed in its objective, that is to save northern Cyprus from turkish occupation. The decided course to be taken was to try to reinforce Cyprus sufficiently for a minimum 48-hour resistance (until the expected international pressure would force Turkey to stop) and not declare war. Reinforcements were being concentrated in Crete and were to be a provisional division with two infantry regiments and two tank battalions (M47 tanks). It was supposed to be ready for transport by mid-august but was pre-empted by the turkish action.
 

nastle

Banned
bump

to add to this
1- what effect will Greece leaving NATO have on the cold war ?
2-Will greeks turn to the WP nations /Russia for help

note this is in the 70s timeline

Thanks
 
Full scale war between greece and Turkey after Turkish "operation Atilla"
what are the options ?
Greek slavs helped by warsaw pact and USSR
Greece withdraws from NATO
USA is neutral but backs Turkey covertly

If either nation withdraws from NATO, then attacks, the US (and all the other NATO members) are legally required to help the NATO member.

If one NATO member attacks another, I'm not sure what happens (probably lots of diplomacy to shut the idiots down).


Pulling out of NATO would be the stupidest thing they could do.
 
Nearly happened

Now the sources are lost in the mists of time but i'm pretty sure a Greek submarine had the Turkish invasion fleet targeted but the captain was ordered by Athens not to fire because when it came to the point of actually starting a war then the Greek military government suddenly remembered its own estimates of only being able to fight the Turks for 3 days in a full, no holds barred war, before their own collapse.
 
If things really get out of hand, over Cyprus, the first thing either side has to over come are the British forces there. If one, or both, starts on the British game over for one or both of them.
 
Task Force 60 of the Sixth Fleet shows up and common sense prevails before there is shooting war. Meanwhile, US Secretary of State engages in some shuttle diplomacy and resolves the issue.
 
Task Force 60 of the Sixth Fleet shows up and common sense prevails before there is shooting war. Meanwhile, US Secretary of State engages in some shuttle diplomacy and resolves the issue.

Hmm. Against whom would it act if both sides told it to mind it's own business?
 
Hmm. Against whom would it act if both sides told it to mind it's own business?

They are not going to tell it. One side or both will back down. They stand more to lose politically and economically and militarily and in every other way by antagonizing the United States than anything they can hope to 'win' in case they are victorious. And they both knew it.
 
They are not going to tell it. One side or both will back down. They stand more to lose politically and economically and militarily and in every other way by antagonizing the United States than anything they can hope to 'win' in case they are victorious. And they both knew it.

And probably at least one side will be sane enough to listen.
 

nastle

Banned
If either nation withdraws from NATO, then attacks, the US (and all the other NATO members) are legally required to help the NATO member.

If one NATO member attacks another, I'm not sure what happens (probably lots of diplomacy to shut the idiots down).


Pulling out of NATO would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Greeks threatened to do that I think as US admin at that time secretly favored turkey as it an more important NATO ally
 

nastle

Banned
Task Force 60 of the Sixth Fleet shows up and common sense prevails before there is shooting war. Meanwhile, US Secretary of State engages in some shuttle diplomacy and resolves the issue.

well the trigger happy turks might bomb them !
Remember they sank 1 of their own US made destroyers, damaged 2 more
 
They are not going to tell it. One side or both will back down. They stand more to lose politically and economically and militarily and in every other way by antagonizing the United States than anything they can hope to 'win' in case they are victorious. And they both knew it.

Plus for the Greeks the ongoing Cypriot situation has been politically useful for regime after regime.

Sabre rattling and dark mutterings work for a lot of governments, getting curb stomped though is detrimental to the average political-military career.
 

nastle

Banned
Yes, but misidentifying a CVN is going to take helluva lot explaining...
don't think the turks could have damaged a US fleet , it was too obvious and they would have been shot down by CAP anyway

but remember USS STark ? if Washington didn't want to escalate things with turkey they would have choose not to
 
Ah so you prefer optimism to realism :cool:

Ja. You notice I didn't claim BOTH sides would have that much self preservation. Staring down the barrel of the world's (second) biggest gun (NATO military) would give ANYONE second thoughts. Whether it's enough to stop them, well, good question,
 
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