Greatest Naval Leader?

No Themistocles yet in the thread???????

When did anybody else in the thread win at the kind of odds at Salamis?

He also took Athens from a well-off, but militarily questionable power to the greatest sea power of its time by building 200 ships to face both Persia and Greece, and then turning Athens into a virtual island by building a big, long wall too well-defended to take with the tech of the time. And, he probably invented a third of the ideas your other candidates used.
 
On French ships, the 'ships were better' is a much repeated riff that, as usual is only partly true - the French ships were often better sea handlers (so faster) while being worse gun platforms, especially than the 74's such as Bellerophon. They were designed for different things, and the speed and sea handling characteristics are what the RN officers most often praised in logs, diaries, reports and articles in the Naval Chronicle. Combine the above with the inexperience of the French crews - which was brought about by Egalite - the French naval gunners were an elite, and so destroyed by representatives on mission in the Terror, as were the Naval officers (mostly of noble rank). Once the ships were tied up alongside, the majority of men were taken to serve in the army - and so when Napoleon needed a fleet, he had to take men from the army to man it. In short, Nelson had the privilege of fighting novices in ships that were worse gun platforms but better sea handlers-- which wasn't much of an advantage because the French sailors lacked the skill to utilize them.
 
Villeneuve had been vice-admiral at the Nile, and had been in command of the French fleet for a number of years. Granted the French and Spanish seamen were of a lower quality than the RN, but a six ship advantage is not to be sneezed at, even with lower quality crews. (And, tbh, the RN crews of the C17th were certainly of lower quality than the Dutch)

Traditionally, a protected anchorage (as at the Nile)is a significant position, one which should not by C19th naval orthodoxy be assaulted, especially with an uncertain land breeze. Nelson saw the weaknesses in Bruyes position and attacked - a lesser admiral would have held off - or at best not doubled the line

Nelson was great because he twice destroyed the enemy fleet - when since the introduction of heavy cannon into fleet actions this had been a rare occurrance, actually discouraged by fighting instructions in all naval services. Nelson restored the decisive battle and an ultra aggressive spirit into the RN, making it the preeminent Naval service in the world until the 1940s. Essentially, he re-wrote the rulebook for Naval battle, something which few, if any others managed to do.

Not wanting to seem arsey - but de Ruyter did suffer defeat - St James' Day, for one.

is not the best way to say it, but wikipedia can be expressed very well the fight is looking for the Spanish​
wikipedia:
"As the general Mazarredo comment: "... fill the vessels of a portion of the elderly, cite, sick and useless for the sea", words that would be endorsed by Major General Don Antonio de Escaño when he wrote in his report Squad of the Mediterranean: "This squad will wear a mourning Nation in the event of a battle shaping the shame of having trouble sending, so that, as can be seen, the impression the officers of the Spanish fleet before the battle was already very pessimistic

Even high-ranking Spaniards had expressed the possibility of invalid in a direct confrontation against the English fleet, and proposed a strategy of waiting in the harbor over the winter, while the English fleet could be weakened in the sea while the blocks and bear the storms that might arise. Unfortunately, Villeneuve, as noted, had fallen into disgrace with the Emperor, seeking to regain the confidence lost a great victory, which forced her to engage in the battle."

and it´s only the state of our Marine, that was looked as one of the bests of the world by the british, and bla bla bla,. Also knew perfectly well that we were facing the best fleet of the world and as we saw in Finisterre, not with the best allies
the opinion that we´ve got about Villeneuve it´s to write a book too (Napoleon didn´t got a good opinion too). Who knows, what if the combined fleet were commanded by Gravina (not the best of our sailors but...good), or by Mazarredo or at least, nor by Villeneuve and by his predecesor (death at that time)

Of course that Nelson was great, but I don´t think that was a fifty fifty game.

Jervis: "I do not say, my Lords, that the French will not come. I say only they will not come by sea."
 
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