Greater Sweden

Valdemar II

Banned
How can we keep a Sweden which include Finland and Estonia alive?

As I see it we have to sabotage Russia, even a later rise to power would improve Swedens chances, another way is if Sweden can get rid of Denmark as a enemy it would remove one front.
 
The storming of Köbenhavn 1659 succeeds and Danmark-Norge as a consequence being absorbed by the empire, Karl X dies of an ilness in 1660
as in our timeline but no war against Danmark later on obviously. With the much better economy because of absorbing Danmark-Norge the army is in much better shape so no defeat at Fehrbellin and no loss of prestige and a
much better peace with Brandenburg. The great Northern war will probably happen anyway but only with 2 adversaries instead of 3 meaning we did not have to guard our western flank so the victory against Russia at Narva will happen and perhaps Karl will listen to Rhensköld and decides to finish of the
Russian with an attack on Pskov and Novgorod and with those cities fallen
I think that the Russian will come to the negotiating table and after that
Poland is next. The great Northern war will end say 1706-07. After that Karl
will get married and settle down probably dying of old age around 1735-40.
Teh downside is no libertyage, no political parties no democracy. Karl XII will be replaced by his son lets call him Karl XIII and the older Karl has taught his the virtue of good military so no degradation of the troops combatpower in the 1700s. There will probably be more wars against Russia
but I think we will hold our own. As for the Napoleonic wars well I suppose
the major powers will be busy with eachother and hopefully not bother us
except maybe Russia which probably will be defeated in the wastness of
Finland and furthermore no Russian Baltic navy to be worried about.
For the rest of the 1800s who nows?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
What if the Rebellion in Trondheim failed and Sweden decided to get the rest of Norway for and give Denmark Bremen-Verden and Wismar instead, it would turn the Danish focus toward south and limit Danish ability to attack Sweden.
 

Redbeard

Banned
If Sweden shall keep Finland and Estonia not even deleting Denmark and Norway from the map will help unless we do somethimg serious about Russia.

Apart from various ASB suggestions about deleting Russia from the map I would propose Peter being not so great and/or Russia falling back into long beards, vodka and internal feuds in the Imperial family after Peter. If we so postpone the time from which Russia is a serious threat to her neighbours for at least 5, but preferably 10 decades, I think the time for annexing territory without extraordinary reasons has passed.

The extraordinary reason could however be the Finns and Estonians not wanting to be part af Sweden or anything Swedish. They could end up like the Slesvig-Holstener, who got Prussian support for getting out of the rule of the King of Denmark, but ended up annexed into Prussia and finally parted - which was what they originally tried to avoid (the King of D. annexed Slesvig into the Kingdom, but left Holstein a Duchy ruled by the King of Denmark).

If the Finns and Estonians shall stay happy with Sweden it probably requires a quite egalitarian union, federation or whatever name it takes. The Norwegians had a relatively loose union from 1814-1905, but that wasn't enough to keep them, and is it realistic that the Swedes, being used to Finland and Estnia as remote provinces (and not an old Kongdom like Norway), will grant these nations equal status?

We will need some more PoDs - ideas?

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 

Oddball

Monthly Donor
If the Finns and Estonians shall stay happy with Sweden it probably requires a quite egalitarian union, federation or whatever name it takes. The Norwegians had a relatively loose union from 1814-1905, but that wasn't enough to keep them, and is it realistic that the Swedes, being used to Finland and Estnia as remote provinces (and not an old Kongdom like Norway), will grant these nations equal status?

Or perhaps they could do it the Scanian way? ;):D
 
If all other attempts fail, then the Swedes could retain Finland at least by winning the Finnish War in 1809. This would keep the Russians off of Finland, and perhaps take Karelia and the Kola Peninsula if they are successful enough, although I do not know enough about the war to know if such a thing is plausible or not.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Or perhaps they could do it the Scanian way? ;):D

Not entirely unlikely with a victory over Russia in the Great Nordic War, large part of the Estonian countryside would be depopulated and could be filled up with Swedish and other westen settlers, beside thaty we could see a takeover of Courland and the area around todays St. Petersburg wich also could be filled up. Much of Russias westenersation was a result of getting the Baltic Germans as subjects, without them we could limit Russias contact with West and that would limit Russias growth.
 
If Sweden shall keep Finland and Estonia not even deleting Denmark and Norway from the map will help unless we do somethimg serious about Russia.

Apart from various ASB suggestions about deleting Russia from the map I would propose Peter being not so great and/or Russia falling back into long beards, vodka and internal feuds in the Imperial family after Peter. If we so postpone the time from which Russia is a serious threat to her neighbours for at least 5, but preferably 10 decades, I think the time for annexing territory without extraordinary reasons has passed.

The extraordinary reason could however be the Finns and Estonians not wanting to be part af Sweden or anything Swedish. They could end up like the Slesvig-Holstener, who got Prussian support for getting out of the rule of the King of Denmark, but ended up annexed into Prussia and finally parted - which was what they originally tried to avoid (the King of D. annexed Slesvig into the Kingdom, but left Holstein a Duchy ruled by the King of Denmark).

If the Finns and Estonians shall stay happy with Sweden it probably requires a quite egalitarian union, federation or whatever name it takes. The Norwegians had a relatively loose union from 1814-1905, but that wasn't enough to keep them, and is it realistic that the Swedes, being used to Finland and Estnia as remote provinces (and not an old Kongdom like Norway), will grant these nations equal status?

We will need some more PoDs - ideas?

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
Finland was not a remote province, it was simply put the eastern part of the realm and further more the Finns sent their representatives the the Riksdag i Stockholm just as the people in Södermanland and Dalarna did.
The king and riksdag did not see a difference between for instance Savolax
and Småland they were just provinces in the realm albiet with a different
language.
 

Arbetaren

Finland was not a remote province, it was simply put the eastern part of the realm and further more the Finns sent their representatives the the Riksdag i Stockholm just as the people in Södermanland and Dalarna did.
The king and riksdag did not see a difference between for instance Savolax
and Småland they were just provinces in the realm albiet with a different
language.

And since a large amount of finns spoke swedish the language difference wasn't always there.
 
Top