Greater Phillipines?

OTL Spain's Pacific Holdings were divided after the Spanish American war; The Philippines and Guam initially to the USA, the Marianas, Carolinas, and Palau to Germany. Later the american and German empires were further divided.

Could all these islands have plausibly become one sovereign state by 2016?

Perhaps anticolonialism in the USA results in Philippines and Guam sold to the Germans as well, then after a comparable WW1 to OTL, The German New Guinea mainland is ceded to Britain and the rest of the islands become a independent UN protectorate administered from Manila?

Could any other area become part of a greater Phillipines? Even OTL some Filipinos claim part of northern Borneo. Formosa/Taiwan seems plausible if a mainland Chinese state is unfriendly to the USA, and the Philippines is friendly.
 
Guam was represented in Aguinaldo's republic in OTL.

I see no reason the rest of the Spanish East indies wouldn't be part of ATL Philippines. It was Spain, US and Germans who chopped them in OTL thru de jure means while thru de facto, Philippine republic losing to the USA. Had Philippines had somehow won vs USA, although however improbable though still possible in very small percentages, would create problems with Spain, Germany and USA enforcing those treaties/ownership.
 
Absolutely not. Chamarros of Guam are not Filipino people, none of the Pacific Islanders would want to be under a Greater Philippines. And any independence before 1947 is going to lead to geographical implosion with first Mindanao revolting as independent. Given the extreme form of nationalism that we see Han Chinese have there is no way Taiwan is controlled.
 
Guam was represented in Aguinaldo's republic in OTL.

I see no reason the rest of the Spanish East indies wouldn't be part of ATL Philippines. It was Spain, US and Germans who chopped them in OTL thru de jure means while thru de facto, Philippine republic losing to the USA. Had Philippines had somehow won vs USA, although however improbable though still possible in very small percentages, would create problems with Spain, Germany and USA enforcing those treaties/ownership.
No, Guam was not. What is now the independent nation of Palau was represented. But no Guam.
 
Absolutely not. Chamarros of Guam are not Filipino people, none of the Pacific Islanders would want to be under a Greater Philippines.

Say who? you? Had the Philippines won vs the USA, these islands wouldn't have a choice at all. Just like they had no choice when Germany and US took them in OTL.

Philippines is culturally diverse. The difference between the Tagalogs like Aguinaldo is roughly the same difference as Chamarros and the Cebuanos or the Ilonggos or the Ilocanos. Being Filipino is self identification during these times.

And any independence before 1947 is going to lead to geographical implosion with first Mindanao revolting as independent. Given the extreme form of nationalism that we see Han Chinese have there is no way Taiwan is controlled.

The whole of Mindanao is not going to revolt. Parts of it maybe. But that is due to cultural difference with the Moros. e.g. revenge killing legal for them, in a more western like US/Germany/Spain, Filipino culture it isn't. Rebellion with the Moros only restarted in OTL during Marcos era and it had more to do with Marcos mismanagement.

In OTL 1918 US census, there were 70k Muslims in the Philippines out of 10M which includes women,children and old people. That can create nuisances. Don't think they can hold towns/cities for that. Maybe go to jungles like during the OTL Moro wars.

No, Guam was not. What is now the independent nation of Palau was represented. But no Guam.

My mistake there.
 
The rough geography of the Philippines was defined by the early 17th century. With the rise of the Dutchmen and Muslim sultanates in the south, these isles would never again have influence south of Mindanao. Break the Dutchman, and you open the way to the Moluccas. :p

Absolutely not. Chamarros of Guam are not Filipino people, none of the Pacific Islanders would want to be under a Greater Philippines. And any independence before 1947 is going to lead to geographical implosion with first Mindanao revolting as independent. Given the extreme form of nationalism that we see Han Chinese have there is no way Taiwan is controlled.

But really, the only reason those Pacific islands went a separate way is America. There is no reason for them to go independent beyond that.

As for the Moros, there is no way an independent Philippines would allow them to go free.
 
how about northern Celebes?

Again, screwing the Dutchmen in the 17th century (at least, the ones in the East Indies) goes a long way to securing a larger Spanish East Indies in the south, and therefore a larger Philippines. Unless, of course, the south remains culturally separate. In which case it may end up spun off as a separate republic/kingdom. :p
 
Beside the Marianas (Guam included) and the Carolines, how about northern Celebes?
Are you kidding me? Let's see- prior to colonialism there were native kingdoms in Indonesia. The Philippines has no history of unification or empire building. These chauvanistic ideas of Greater Philippines are pipe dreams of ultra-nationalism on a Hitler-esque scale and are not realistic beyond someone of that type of ideology and cult of personality going on a war campaign.
 
Are you kidding me? Let's see- prior to colonialism there were native kingdoms in Indonesia. The Philippines has no history of unification or empire building. These chauvanistic ideas of Greater Philippines are pipe dreams of ultra-nationalism on a Hitler-esque scale and are not realistic beyond someone of that type of ideology and cult of personality going on a war campaign.

Not it is not. Depending on which territory and PoD. OTL Spanish East indies is possible with 1890s PoD. While North borneo and Formosa will require an earlier PoD.

Philippines is a name of those peoples who were under Spanish rule in the East Indies. Anything that expand that thru Spain would technically make Philippines expand.

Had Spain limited herself to Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao wouldnt be part of the Philippines. Or had Spain won that war vs Brunei in the 1500s then the Philippines by virtue of Spain would expand towards Borneo. The same way with Northern Celebes which was part of Spanish East Indies for a brief moment in OTL.

I haven't even tackled even the PoD of earlier independence which will put a westernish civilization in the middle of backward neighbors in the early 19th century.

It is no way Hitler-esque or chauvinistic. You just have to take have find the right reasons and explanation for it.
 
Are you kidding me? Let's see- prior to colonialism there were native kingdoms in Indonesia. The Philippines has no history of unification or empire building. These chauvanistic ideas of Greater Philippines are pipe dreams of ultra-nationalism on a Hitler-esque scale and are not realistic beyond someone of that type of ideology and cult of personality going on a war campaign.

First of all, how is this exercise in alternate history Hitler-esque and chauvinistic? I mean, you could look at pretty much all alternate history as such, from a certain point of view: Look at all the cliches about the Confederates in the American Civil War, or the propagating of an extended Roman Empire (a genocidal warrior regime), or hell, actual Hitler. You can look at alternate colonial expansions as also chauvinistic, if you want.

As for pipe dreams, well, this isn't OTL stuff, is it?

Because ultimately, this is alternate history. And that means pretty much anything is possible as long as it follows some form of causality. Nothing is set in stone.

What Indonesia is now is not inevitable:
It could be that a Malay state establishes itself on the western half of the archipelago encompassing Malaysia and Western Indonesia, while the eastern half is ruled by, say, a Hindu-Buddhist Ternate or Tidore.
It could be that the whole archipelago is ruled by Spaniards, the Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms converted to the light of Jesus.
It could be that these Philippine islands become yet another province of Indonesia, ruled by the Dutchmen and left to fester.
Or hey, it could be that a maritime empire emerges from an alt-Baiyue people going on an exodus from the lands of the Chu, descending upon Luzon and conquering all in their way.

And native kingdoms do not stop people from overrunning them. Case in point: the Dutch East Indies, French Indochina, and the Spanish East Indies.

The Philippines, as a geographic entity and as a nation, was formed by the Philippine colonial experience, by the conversions of many of its native peoples to Catholicism. We admit that at least, to the point that most of us can claim little about the pre-colonial past beyond diversity. We have few, if any, past glories in empire-building.

And so, we have the alternate possibilities of a different Philippines, and I of course suggested looking at an alternate Spanish East Indies for a larger Philippines.
 
Actually, Visayas was the area initially conquered by the Spanish, The people of Luzon have a tendency of allying to the Dutch however the nobility is the one that is pro spanish..the Pampangers of pampanga who become mercenaries for the dutch come into mind, I think if the Philippines was acquired by the Dutch the Visayans would not migrate to Manila and Luzon would restore its ties with Java and there would not be any commonality and ties..
 
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