Greater Liberia?

Leistungsfähiger Amerikan

Liberia was founded by the American Colonization Society for freed African slaves. The creation of this society in the US is interesting, considering that the Scramble for Africa wouldn't happen for another 60 years, although the society had completely different motivations. Ther are a number of PODs that are interesting in the creation of Liberia.

What if Liberia never declares it's independence?

What if Liberia was able to gain more land than it did in OTL?

Maybe as a result of the previous POD, what if Liberia is taken by a colonial power in the scramble for Africa? What the USA support them? While the US has worked with the Liberians in the mid 1800's, I suppose whether they would help depends on how powerful the colonial power.
 

Geekhis Khan

Well, if the US makes a serious attempt to send *all* freed slaves "back to Africa" there could be a serious population surge some time in the 19th century (depending on when and how slavery is dealt with).

Assuming educated African American leaders ala Douglas and perhaps former combat soldiers (again depending on POD) you could have the seeds for a well-organized and "modern" American-African nation that could theoretically expand, if it can do so without having its European "rivals" dogpile them.

Hmmm...what if the new Greater Liberia begins to spread "American" learning, including gunpowder and advanced metallurgy to the various West African nations, such as Mali or Dahomey? Again not up on my African history, but if thought out and researched this could make a crazy TL.
 

Sol Invictus

I've always like the idea of an massively successful independent Liberia.

One thing I have wondered, if the Confederate States of America win or 'draw' the civil war, does that have any bearing on Liberia?

The USA may find itself 'swamped' by free blacks, and so decide to forcibly deport them to Liberia. In future years when the CSA eventually gives up slavery, do they mass deport their blacks to Liberia?
 

RGB

If America really treated it as a proper colony (somewhat required in my mind to keep expanding) it may bring them into competition with the British and especially other Europeans.

Scramble for Africa starts sooner? Monroe doctrine (largely enforced by Britain) threatened/compromised?

Hm.
 

Leistungsfähiger Amerikan

African Empire..

Did the United States ever have the ability to be a player in the Scramble for Africa? I think they sent some envoys to the Berlin Conference, but, of corse, didn't get anything out of it.

And about the deportation of blacks, I am not sure that they would "force" deporatation in such a scenario, but maybe really encourage it. Abolotionist opposed this colonization plan, although it had been a law in Maryland that free blacks had to be leave to Liberia, although it wasn't enforced. Plus, I don't think that there was a huge sentiment that black people couldn't "assimilate" in society, just a big racist feeling of not wanting to live near black people. This means that they could go out west, as many did to escape racism in OTL.

And a greater Libieria TL would be interesting, as Geekhis Khan said, because technology could spread to other surrounding nations, making colonization more difficult. By 1840's Britian was being mean to the small nation(in a diplomatic sense), and I suppose they would be meaner the more land Liberia had.

And rereading the Wikipedia page, this man named Jehudi Ashmun, who wanted an American Empire in Africa as early as 1825. There were many other colonization societies other, all in regional areas in the US. For example, the Maryland Colonization Society created the African Republic of Maryland, not to be confused with the state. The Nat Turner Rebellion gained support for the plan, so perhaps if it had been a tad more successful, and Jehudi hadn't resigned.....
 

Malta

Leistungsfähiger Amerikan said:
Did the United States ever have the ability to be a player in the Scramble for Africa? I think they sent some envoys to the Berlin Conference, but, of corse, didn't get anything out of it.

And about the deportation of blacks, I am not sure that they would "force" deporatation in such a scenario, but maybe really encourage it. Abolotionist opposed this colonization plan, although it had been a law in Maryland that free blacks had to be leave to Liberia, although it wasn't enforced. Plus, I don't think that there was a huge sentiment that black people couldn't "assimilate" in society, just a big racist feeling of not wanting to live near black people. This means that they could go out west, as many did to escape racism in OTL.

And a greater Libieria TL would be interesting, as Geekhis Khan said, because technology could spread to other surrounding nations, making colonization more difficult. By 1840's Britian was being mean to the small nation(in a diplomatic sense), and I suppose they would be meaner the more land Liberia had.

And rereading the Wikipedia page, this man named Jehudi Ashmun, who wanted an American Empire in Africa as early as 1825. There were many other colonization societies other, all in regional areas in the US. For example, the Maryland Colonization Society created the African Republic of Maryland, not to be confused with the state. The Nat Turner Rebellion gained support for the plan, so perhaps if it had been a tad more successful, and Jehudi hadn't resigned.....
Click to expand...

Weeeeeelllllll have you ever seen the Many Nations of North America timeline?
 

I Guangxu

I actually once sketched out a very rough TL for a Greater Liberia scenario as part of a Shared Worlds game. It had some plausibility issues at a few points, but I've always thought it was an interesting postulation. The level of success (read: wank) enjoyed by this Greater Liberia is ultimately very much dependent on just how much handwaving you are willing to do in terms of its enjoying exceptional luck. I've been revising aspects of it off and on for about a year now as the spirit moves me and rekindles my interest. It isn't really a fully developed timeline at this stage, but the concept, major events, and basic themes are there.

In a way, from an AH-fiction standpoint, I've frequently wanted to look at a possible Greater Liberia as a kind of subverted Draka; not as severe in its oppression (at least no more so than other Western powers in Africa), but possessed of a more amorphous and ultimately more insidious brand of racism.
 

DuQuense

Well The upper class Northern Blacks didn't want all these uneducated Blacks in Their Cities. Perphaps They get some of their Rich Southern Brethren to promote a pre ACW Back to Africa movement,
The Under ground Railroad would end at Ports where the escaping Slaves would be hurried on board departing Ships.
Due to the rich Blacks promoting this, The Escapees would expect this.
 

Nugax

yourworstnightmare said:
The Liberians (ironically) pretty much treated the tribal population as slaves, so a Greater Liberia would mean a Greater Tyranny.
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And thnaks to the long overseas stint they didn't have much more resistance to the endemic African diseases than the Europeans did, making quick expansion into the interior impossible.

So with the interior hard to access (the terrain isn't great either), and the rest of the coast firmly claimed by one european power or the other the Liberians don't really have anywhere to go. Much as DoD posits, a more successful Liberia would be one put somewhere else.
 
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Valdemar II

Banned
I love Jared solution to the problem, place Liberia another place. As I see it there's two places which fit for alt-Liberia, Namibia and Mauretania/West Sahara, both lack the bcause of the dry climate lack much of the diseases of the OTL Liberia, and both are rather empty, which ensure that they can't just enslave the locals, and is forced to base the colony on their own labour.
 
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