Greater Italy Timelines?

Almost every time I see an alternate history timeline, Italy either has less territory (usually the loss of the northwestern territories and/or Sicily) or isn't unified. Sometimes Italy is just the same size.

So are there any timelines where Italy has more territory than it has right now, or did prior to 1943? Particularly in Europe and not necessarily colonies.
 
Are there any TLs where Italy stays out of WW2 or joins the allies? That would probably do it.

In those timelines, they might not even get Abyssinia. Maybe they'd finally get Dalmatia if they were part of the Allies. I doubt there are many neutral Italy TLs where Italy still acts expansionist.
 
Italy was always the weakest of the Great Powers and was limited in its ability to independently change the international status quo (i.e. they had to rely on alliances with other powers).

The POD would have to go back to Italian unification. Maybe having a more stable system of government with more competent leaders who develop Italy like the way the Meiji Restoration transformed Japan, so that it would become a more formidable power than OTL.
 
Italy was always the weakest of the Great Powers and was limited in its ability to independently change the international status quo (i.e. they had to rely on alliances with other powers).

The POD would have to go back to Italian unification. Maybe having a more stable system of government with more competent leaders who develop Italy like the way the Meiji Restoration transformed Japan, so that it would become a more formidable power than OTL.

Yeah. I wasn't sure where to put the thread so I opted for this board since I was slightly more interested about a better off Italy by the 20th century, and a unified Italy only existed OTL for about 40 years before 1900.
 
Well, I suppose there are a few things you could do for it post 1900:

Have WW1 end earlier without the US getting involved; this especially helps if Italy joins the Entente earlier. While nationalistic efforts might be dampened, you might be able to see an Italy extending to Fiume and taking Dalmatia as well. (Basically, have the Treaty of London hold) Have the treaty of Sevres hold, and Italy keeps Antalya (this might take a lot of work, as, if I remember, they were the first treaty member to discard their territory). From then on, Europe becomes quite a bit more difficult to hold; Italy keeping Libya is also a major point for them. Anything more with that POD would be pushing it.

As for before 1900, I know there's been a timeline where Italy is unified by Napoleon (I believe Corsica was still Genoan). For a less divergent TL, I know The Union Forever features an Italy that still holds Tunis & Tripolitania. I can't remember, but I imagine there are plenty where Italy holds Savoie & Nice. Then there's the prospect of Venetian timelines which might eventually feature a unification of Italy via Venice, bringing with it Venice's eastern possessions.

It really depends; what type of Italy are you looking for?
 
Well, I suppose there are a few things you could do for it post 1900:

Have WW1 end earlier without the US getting involved; this especially helps if Italy joins the Entente earlier. While nationalistic efforts might be dampened, you might be able to see an Italy extending to Fiume and taking Dalmatia as well. (Basically, have the Treaty of London hold) Have the treaty of Sevres hold, and Italy keeps Antalya (this might take a lot of work, as, if I remember, they were the first treaty member to discard their territory). From then on, Europe becomes quite a bit more difficult to hold; Italy keeping Libya is also a major point for them. Anything more with that POD would be pushing it.

As for before 1900, I know there's been a timeline where Italy is unified by Napoleon (I believe Corsica was still Genoan). For a less divergent TL, I know The Union Forever features an Italy that still holds Tunis & Tripolitania. I can't remember, but I imagine there are plenty where Italy holds Savoie & Nice. Then there's the prospect of Venetian timelines which might eventually feature a unification of Italy via Venice, bringing with it Venice's eastern possessions.

It really depends; what type of Italy are you looking for?

Nothing particular in mind besides the timeline at least going up to the 20th century. Every 20th century TL I've seen with the exception of Axis Victory timelines, Italy is either divided or is smaller than they were at that point in time.
 
Nothing particular in mind besides the timeline at least going up to the 20th century. Every 20th century TL I've seen with the exception of Axis Victory timelines, Italy is either divided or is smaller than they were at that point in time.

The only one I can mention is the one that I just did. Although, Italy is rather incidental to the plot in The Union Forever, and only crops up from time to time ever since the end of that timeline's Great War. However,it's prosperous, and there has been some antagonism between the German-lead monarchist bloc and the Franco-Italian-Spanish republican one. Russia may sidetrack everyone from those concerns, though.

Can't think of any other Italian wank timelines, though.
 
The best case scenario ever written by italy is Stresa revived, with Mussolini joining the allies in WWII, this is also a portugalwank since both italy, spain and Portugal keep their colonies (and fully integrated them as provinces)
 
One TL that was gearing up for a Greater Italy was the magnificent "Viva Balbo: a different ducé; a different Italy". I can't remember whether Italy's territorial holdings were larger when the OP abandoned it, but Italy was a happier, more prosperous place, and looking good for a fair bit of expansion.
 
Well, I suppose there are a few things you could do for it post 1900:

Have WW1 end earlier without the US getting involved; this especially helps if Italy joins the Entente earlier. While nationalistic efforts might be dampened, you might be able to see an Italy extending to Fiume and taking Dalmatia as well. (Basically, have the Treaty of London hold) Have the treaty of Sevres hold, and Italy keeps Antalya (this might take a lot of work, as, if I remember, they were the first treaty member to discard their territory). From then on, Europe becomes quite a bit more difficult to hold; Italy keeping Libya is also a major point for them. Anything more with that POD would be pushing it.

As for before 1900, I know there's been a timeline where Italy is unified by Napoleon (I believe Corsica was still Genoan). For a less divergent TL, I know The Union Forever features an Italy that still holds Tunis & Tripolitania. I can't remember, but I imagine there are plenty where Italy holds Savoie & Nice. Then there's the prospect of Venetian timelines which might eventually feature a unification of Italy via Venice, bringing with it Venice's eastern possessions.

It really depends; what type of Italy are you looking for?
There best interests are served by staying neutral in exchange for territory and if the Entente still defeats Germany, they could always use the next war by a revanchist right-wing Germany to make further territorial acquisitions. Neutrality and industrialization is the best way to do it.
 
If Italy remains neutral in the Second World War, it's quite likely that it would retain what is now western Slovenia, Croatia's Istria peninsula, the island of Zadar, and other islands.

Beyond that, any sweeping Italian territorial gains would require significant changes. (Italy joins Prussia in going to war against France in 1870, to reclaim at least Nice?)
 
If Italy remains neutral in the Second World War, it's quite likely that it would retain what is now western Slovenia, Croatia's Istria peninsula, the island of Zadar, and other islands.

Beyond that, any sweeping Italian territorial gains would require significant changes. (Italy joins Prussia in going to war against France in 1870, to reclaim at least Nice?)
A neutral Italy can get quite a bit more than that if it plays it's cards right IMO. They speeds offered territorial concessions by Britain and France.
 
As others said, it's difficult to get Italy to do much better with a post-1900 PoD: most of the reasons for Italian failures go back to the botched unification, and that means they can't be easily eradicated forty years later at best. Oh, Italy can do better - neutral in both World Wars, a focus on development, and maybe a small nudge in the direction of Lybian oil - but it isn't sweeping, and it also means Italy would be slightly smaller than OTL.

To have Italy run to its full potential (which is considerable, really), you need to go back to the 1860's and get the government to enact those agrarian reforms they had promised the South during the unification; anything less ends up with the historically broken up Italy, rich North dragged down by a quasi-feudal, crime-infested South (which eventually spread up north, as well). Kill mafia in the cradle, eradicate the latifondium culture, and the South will start walking at the same speed. Then you can think about uniting Italy culturally. It's a long, long road which is still going today, and there's no way it can be completed before the World Wars (or equivalents) hit, with a post-1900 PoD.
 
As others said, it's difficult to get Italy to do much better with a post-1900 PoD: most of the reasons for Italian failures go back to the botched unification, and that means they can't be easily eradicated forty years later at best. Oh, Italy can do better - neutral in both World Wars, a focus on development, and maybe a small nudge in the direction of Lybian oil - but it isn't sweeping, and it also means Italy would be slightly smaller than OTL.

To have Italy run to its full potential (which is considerable, really), you need to go back to the 1860's and get the government to enact those agrarian reforms they had promised the South during the unification; anything less ends up with the historically broken up Italy, rich North dragged down by a quasi-feudal, crime-infested South (which eventually spread up north, as well). Kill mafia in the cradle, eradicate the latifondium culture, and the South will start walking at the same speed. Then you can think about uniting Italy culturally. It's a long, long road which is still going today, and there's no way it can be completed before the World Wars (or equivalents) hit, with a post-1900 PoD.

Do you know of any that are pre-1900 then?
 
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