Great What-Ifs of Canadian History Pre-1900

[The Gunslinger]

More options:
1) require the NBC and NWCo. to map the lands they claim and include as part of the Royal Navy Mapping. In OTL the lack of maps is partly why lands were settled post American Revolution as nobody actually knew where they were.

This is probably a good one, but you'd need crown support for it otherwise you'll just wind up with a bunch of dead explorers.

3) Work to claim the fur trade posts of the Upper Mississippi valley as established by France. This is critical to avoiding the Canadian shield around Lake Superior and opens up access into the Red River Valley much sooner.

You need an 1812 POD, once the Treaty of 1818 starts up there's very little impetus to move the border anywhere other than the 49th.

4) greater immigration from Ireland earlier. Irish were not desired settlers until the late 1800's. There are only so many Scots/Orkneymen/Englishmen to settle new lands.
5) Look at an earlier version of the Veterans Homesteading Act where British soldiers/sailors in good standing are granted lands in exchange for term of service. One big potential source may be the Kings Hessian soldiers post ARW. In OTL this was established for Boer War and later WW1 and WW2 Veterans.

There was a lot of Irish settlement during the famine, but the Irish were more attracted to the United States. It's more of an infrastructure issue than anything, the Upper Canadian market was largely an self-contained island until the canals started opening the place up to "real" international trade.

6) Work on road network from Halifax to Fort Niagara. Reduces many of the logistics issues.

You need an earlier St. Lawrence canal. Then you have a literal highway through the Great Lakes. Also, Canada was incredibly stingy and never funded proper roads anywhere.

9) Build Fort Prince of Wales on the right river for the fur trade. Ooops. Allows for a Northern access node and command post.

I genuinely don't see the need. By the time HBC really starts becoming important the whole of Hudson's Bay is unassailable due to the Royal Navy.
[/QUOTE]

Alaska eventually joining Canada (probably around the same time as British Columbia) would make sense though I doubt the Far East would have any chance of falling under the BNA umbrella.

Britain did put Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky under siege and could have won without too much of a PoD. I've always wondered what would become of it, if they would keep it or if British Columbia might push for some weird Dominion of the Pacific.

I'm not sure what they would be gaining at the time.

Newfoundland as part of Canada in the Great War avoids the disaster it faced OTL. Neither side would be gaining much though. Newfoundland had some big debts and Canada was unwilling to pay them out. Probably a less severe Great Depression later though in Newfoundland.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Britain did put Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky under siege and could have won without too much of a PoD. I've always wondered what would become of it, if they would keep it or if British Columbia might push for some weird Dominion of the Pacific.

My problem with this idea is the communication problem across all the parts of such a widely spread dominion in the mid 19th century. If you're on land, you can build roads, railway lines and later telegraph. At the time, communication between BC and the Russian Far East would be troublesome to the point that making RFE a separate colony / dominion might seem like a better idea.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

John A MacDonald takes up Louis Riel's offer to lead a Metis force to prevent Fenian incursions in Manitoba

Would be interesting. the Métis would become the canadian equivalent of cossacks, protecting the border in exchange for autonomy.

 

[The Gunslinger]

My problem with this idea is the communication problem across all the parts of such a widely spread dominion in the mid 19th century. If you're on land, you can build roads, railway lines and later telegraph. At the time, communication between BC and the Russian Far East would be troublesome to the point that making RFE a separate colony / dominion might seem like a better idea.

I totally agree. However, given the attitudes of the era and given British Columbia's slightly more maritime streak and sometimes thumbing their nose attitude towards Canada I could potentially see them pushing for it at some point.

Would be interesting. the Métis would become the canadian equivalent of cossacks, protecting the border in exchange for autonomy.

The Blackfoot made a similar offer to the Canadian government with regards to the Cree during the second Metis rebellion. The Canadians wisely turned it down not wanting to spark a genocidal war on the prairies.

 

[Ship]

BC was convinced by promises to build the Trans-Canada Railway (though J. A. MacDonald was later impeached for having business ties/interests in building it)

Macdonald wasn’t impeached, he resigned. There’s no such thing as impeachment of a prime minister in Canada.

 

[Evan]

Macdonald wasn’t impeached, he resigned. There’s no such thing as impeachment of a prime minister in Canada.

Unless, to be technical, you count a vote of no confidence.

 

[Ship]

Unless, to be technical, you count a vote of no confidence.

Yes, that would be the closest to impeachment. But it’s entirely possible to lose a no confidence vote and still come out ahead. Look at Harper in 2011.

 

[PolishMagnet]

Macdonald wasn’t impeached, he resigned. There’s no such thing as impeachment of a prime minister in Canada.

Haha good point. As a Canadian, I'm a bit embarrased. He was investigated and later swept out of office. In any case, my point about the CPR remains.

 

[bpbruce]

would require an explanation as to why the British preferred to keep "foreign" subjects instead of "old" subjects from the British isles. The Acadians were no more likely to take the "Test Oath" than the French-Canadians did as it involved passages that attacked the catholic faith.



Problematic due to the number and spread of them which is why OTL the british went back on the policy of ethnic cleansing.



not familiar with this in a Canadian context. A penal colony for irish political prisoners ?



Would probably require completely different governors more willing to compromise with the elected assembly.



They sold it to the US *specifically* so that it wouldn't fall into british hands so that would require a better relationship between the 2 empires.



hard to do unless problems in the maritime lead to these colonies being unilaterally joined to the Province of Canada by the british colonial authorities.



Maybe the british refuses to accept responsibility to revert to colonial status and instead unilaterally transfer authority to Canada



while not impossible, a more centralised Dominion of Canada would results in a lot of internal tension potentially leading to civil conflicts.



This would require either an early recognition of the Red River Colony as a province or else the federal government *really* needing the support of Quebec for something.

'They sold it specifically to the US so it wouldn't go to the British' yes, but that means it was on the table. A British Empire with Alaska might grab Hawaii too, and maybe the Phillipines in 1898, and if White Russians could count on British Alaska for support they might have gone east and cut a deal with the Japanese by 1920 to hold an independent East Russian state. Hitler would attack a smaller Soviet Union, but if East Russia had British bombers maybe Japan would skip attacking the British Empire and America, just hit the Dutch East Indies for oil (like they should have in our timeline, I'd say). Lend-lease could flow safely west west from Canada, East Russians taking their cut and tooling up enough that Beria can get support to call off the cold war by the early fifties, especially if Chiang still holds China.

 

[sampleswift]

"Earlier version of the Veterans Homesteading Act where British soldiers/sailors in good standing are granted lands in exchange for term of service. One big potential source may be the Kings Hessian soldiers post ARW. "

Wait. Weren't those Hessians German mercenaries who just returned home to Germany after losing the American Revolution? Them settling in Canada might have gotten a German influence?

 

[VaultJumper]

Canada under American rule.
The Maritimes under American rule.
Treaty of Paris gives Ontario valley to the Americans.

what is the Ontario valley I tried looking it up and couldn't find anything on it

 

[twovultures]

The technology of OTL's Thule Culture develops in the eastern rather than the western arctic, resulting in an earlier *Inuit expansion from eastern Canada to Greenland to Iceland before Europeans get there.

Survival of the Mammoths in the Canadian arctic results in massive and sustained European contact after the Norse explorations, with Irish and Greenland Norse traders buying ivory from Native Americans.

 

[sampleswift]

Wait... the Inuit never got to Iceland (?)

 

[Thomas1195]

what is the Ontario valley I tried looking it up and couldn't find anything on it

Oh, some mistake. Corrected. It should be southern Ontario

 

[herkles]

A different outcome for the Manitoba School Question: ie allow french to remain a language of the parries. In OTL this scandal led to french dying out in the parrie provinces, but what if it didn't. Instead French remained a secondary language throughout the parries. I think that this would lead to a weakening of Quebec Nationalism which I suspect would have impacts of its own.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Them settling in Canada might have gotten a German influence?

There were small numbers of German settlers in Ontario, but they just kind of got subsumed into the Anglo-Canadian fold.

A different outcome for the Manitoba School Question: ie allow french to remain a language of the parries. In OTL this scandal led to french dying out in the parrie provinces, but what if it didn't. Instead French remained a secondary language throughout the parries. I think that this would lead to a weakening of Quebec Nationalism which I suspect would have impacts of its own.

It will get protected until mass settlement happens, and then it's the same problem as OTL. All the immigrants learn English and vote to end French schools. The feds can't do much to protect it because it's under provincial jurisdiction.

 

[HarryLeferts]

One small possibility is that the Shubenacadie Canal actually does get completed on schedule. So instead of being delayed until the late 1850s, it comes into operation during 1834 or so.

 

[twovultures]

Wait... the Inuit never got to Iceland (?)

Not IOTL, since the Inuit expansion through the arctic was pretty recent (during Europe's Medieval era). They didn't even get to southern Greenland until the 15th century. But an equivalent expansion starting from the eastern arctic could get them to southern Greenland much earlier, probably butterflying Norse colonization, and might even get them as far as Iceland.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

The Blackfoot made a similar offer to the Canadian government with regards to the Cree during the second Metis rebellion. The Canadians wisely turned it down not wanting to spark a genocidal war on the prairies.

It would be interesting if the government had ended up in a similar circumstance where the settlement is much more violent, and they basically start a Plains War to make the westward expansion easier. Grim, but an interesting idea.

Also interesting would be if Riel never had killed Thomas Scott, could he have actually entered more peacable negotiations? I've also read he may have been inclined to execute more people from frustration.

Haha good point. As a Canadian, I'm a bit embarrased. He was investigated and later swept out of office. In any case, my point about the CPR remains.

In fairness he resigned before he could lose an election.

An interesting POD would be if the papers proving the scandal were never leaked and Macdonald remained in office. The railroad might have been built somewhat quicker without Mackenzie's Liberal government basically giving it up for four years. Macdonald might never have the big scandal tar his reputation.

'They sold it specifically to the US so it wouldn't go to the British' yes, but that means it was on the table. A British Empire with Alaska might grab Hawaii too, and maybe the Phillipines in 1898.

Taking Alaska might make the British more amenable to making Hawaii a protectorate, but if they control Hawaii they have no need to control the Phillippines since they already have so many other options for maritime control in Asia closer to the mainland. Hawaii would basically seal up the Pacific trade routes and give them a superb base at Pearl Harbor for expansion and make any other power's (specifically the US) expanding across the Pacific more difficult.

 

[bpbruce]

It would be interesting if the government had ended up in a similar circumstance where the settlement is much more violent, and they basically start a Plains War to make the westward expansion easier. Grim, but an interesting idea.

Also interesting would be if Riel never had killed Thomas Scott, could he have actually entered more peacable negotiations? I've also read he may have been inclined to execute more people from frustration.



In fairness he resigned before he could lose an election.

An interesting POD would be if the papers proving the scandal were never leaked and Macdonald remained in office. The railroad might have been built somewhat quicker without Mackenzie's Liberal government basically giving it up for four years. Macdonald might never have the big scandal tar his reputation.



Taking Alaska might make the British more amenable to making Hawaii a protectorate, but if they control Hawaii they have no need to control the Phillippines since they already have so many other options for maritime control in Asia closer to the mainland. Hawaii would basically seal up the Pacific trade routes and give them a superb base at Pearl Harbor for expansion and make any other power's (specifically the US) expanding across the Pacific more difficult.

O reason not the need.