Grasping the Thistle: A Scottish Series

[Ghazghkull]

Has Scotland created Companies like the East India Company?

Yes, although nothing as powerful as the East India Company. Like the OTL the current major players in the colonial and trading game are the English, Spanish, French, Dutch and Portuguese. Scotland is very much a second tier player in the colonial game, at least for now.

Currently Scotland has two main trading companies. The first being the Company of Scotland (sometimes referred to as the St Lawrence Company), which is responsible for the colony of Nova Scotia and Scotland's growing tobacco trade in the West Indies and Americas (there's a little about this company in the article of the Dissolution). The second being the relatively new Scottish East India Company, which is effectively responsible for all Scottish trade east of the Cape of Good Hope. Despite the name, the company currently has very little trade with India, and is actually more focused on trade with China and the Indonesian Islands.

There are smaller trading companies that are deeply involved in the Atlantic Slave trade (Scotland's trade networks are heavily linked to the slave trade), most based out of the Gulf of Guinea and operating under the supervision of the Royal New Guinea Company.

I am forecasting FAR into the future, but since it's just going to be England and Ireland from now on. Perhaps this idea will get more traction here in England than in OTL.

The Resurrection of Hungary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Essentially, the founder of Sinn Fein proposed an "Anglo-Irish dual Monarchy" type along the lines of Austria-Hungary with him arguing that the Irish could learn from the Hungarians playing hardball with the Austrians to get co-equal status and replicate it in their own country with regard to England. With Scotland out of the picture, this arrangement could be a lot more likely.

A form of this kinda happened in the OTL, in the sense that when the Irish became independent under the Irish Free State, the British Monarch remained King of Ireland for about 15 years, and there was substational support for keeping the Monarchy. The history of England and Ireland's Union is now going to be very different, because without Scotland in the union, the importance of Ireland will be more substational in the early 19th century.

 

[Ghazghkull]

Colony of New Douglas
Darien Disaster

The Colony of New Douglas, also known as the Darien Colony, was an unsuccessful attempt, backed largely by Scotland and investors in the Georgia Trustees, to establish a viable border colony in Colonial North America between the English and Spanish Empires. The plan for the colony, located just north of the Altamaha River, was to act as a way station for Scottish ships involved in the Atlantic triangle trade. Backers in England, most famously James Oglethorpe, supported the colony believing the Scots would act as a buffer state of settler-soldiers protecting the frontiers of England's southern colonies from Spanish Florida.

The colony was met with initial economic success, developing large free-range cattle ranches and timber harvesting ventures, while Gàidhlig settlers developed strong trading relations with the Muscogee people, providing the colony with opportunities not linked to the English Empire. It was largely considered to be economically viable due to the importation of African peoples, who were used as slave labour on the colony. Prominent colonists attempted to ban the importation of slaves, in 1739, however this was rejected due to the difficulties Scottish proprietors had in attracting enough laborers to make the colony profitable.

Rising tensions in the region led the colonists to build Fort James and Fort St. Andrews as defensive fortifications against Spain and Fort Anne against the English, all of which proved to be important locations for the colony after it became embroiled in the War of Jenkins' Ear.

The failed Anglo-Scottish invasion of Spanish Florida in 1740 convinced the Spanish governor, Don Manuel de Montiano, to press ahead with a counter invasion of both New Douglas and Georgia. The Scots were badly defeated at the Battle of Bloody Marsh before surrendering at the Siege of Fort Anne, the Spanish allowing the Scots to leave with their guns and retreat into English-held Georgia. The loss of the colony and the string of Scottish defeats during the war is generally referred to in Scottish history as the Darien Disaster.

There have been many explanations for the disaster. Rival claims have been made suggesting that the Scots' defensive fortifications were beset by poor provisioning; an overconfidence in Highland martial ability; consequences of divided leadership; failure of English military support in an effort to prepare for the eventual invasion of Georgia; and a failure to anticipate the Spanish Empire's military effectiveness in the region.

The loss of the colony ended Scottish aspirations in southern Colonial North America. Yet despite its failure, Scotland's experience of using slave labour in colonial management was considered to be an economic success. This gave rise to a debate over the major Scottish theories and practices of colonialism.

Until New Douglas, Scotland had mostly followed the Ulster Model in its Nova Scotia colony, involving the immigration of settlers with the aim of supplanting prior existing populations. New Douglas was Scotland's first experience of the Houstoun Model of colonialism, a form of exploitation colonialism, which would become the dominant practice for Scottish colonial efforts in the 18th century. Outside of modern day Canada, Scotland would not become seriously involved in settler colonialism until the mid-19th century and the Scottish colonial projects in Western Cape and New Zealand.

Historian Murray Pittock argues that the Darien Disaster was a major inflection point in Scottish colonial history, setting Scotland on course to become one of the bloodiest participants of the colonial slave trade and exploitation.

 

[traveller76]

Colony of New Douglas
Darien Disaster

It was largely considered to be economically viable due to the importation of African peoples, who were used as slave labour on the colony. Prominent colonists attempted to ban the importation of slaves, in 1939, however this was rejected due to the difficulties Scottish proprietors had in attracting enough laborers to make the colony profitable.

Is this a typo?

 

[Ghazghkull]

Is this a typo?

Gosh darnit, it is indeed. Fixed it... should have been 1739, not 1939 🤣

 

[Unknown]

I knew Scotland had to have a dark side, and this is it, IMO--when the time comes around, Scotland will have a lot to apologize for, methinks...

Waiting for more as I await the Super Bowl tomorrow...

Wonder what TTL's USA and Canda are like, and like the hints of a Scottish Western Cape (I assume this is OTL western South Africa) and New Zealand...

 

[Ghazghkull]

 

[Ghazghkull]

War of Jenkins' Ear
Part of the War of the Austrian Succession (1739-178)

The War of Jenkins' Ear, or Guerra del Asiento, was a conflict lasting from 1739 to 1748 between England, Scotland and the Spanish Empire. The majority of the fighting took place in New Granada, New Douglas and the Caribbean Sea, with major operations largely ended by 1742. It was related to the 1740 to 1748 War of the Austrian Succession. The name was coined in 1858 by Scottish historian Thomas Carlyle, and refers to Robert Jenkins, captain of the English brig "Rebecca", whose ear was allegedly severed by Spanish coast guards while searching his ship for contraband in April 1731.

Response to the incident was tepid until opposition politicians in the English Parliament, backed by the South Sea Company and allies in Scotland, used it seven years later to incite support for a war against Spain. For the English, the war mainly involved their desire to improve English trading opportunities in the Caribbean. They wanted to retain the lucrative Asiento de Negros giving English slave traders permission to sell slaves in Spanish America, which is why the Spanish call it the Guerra del Asiento. For the Scottish, the war was about firmly establishing New Douglas's territorial claims. Unsuccessful English attacks in 1741 on the ports of Cartagena and Havana resulted in heavy casualties, primarily from disease, and were not repeated. Spain's major victory came with the invasion of New Douglas, where the Scots colony was occupied for the duration of the war and later annexed.

Apart from minor fighting in Florida and Georgia, after 1742 the conflict was largely subsumed into the War of the Austrian Succession, which involved most of the powers of Europe, and ended with the 1748 Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle. The war is remembered in English naval history for Admiral George Anson's voyage around the world from 1740 to 1744.

 

[Ghazghkull]

Invasion of New Douglas
Darien Disaster

 

[Ghazghkull]

Ideally been trying to do a update once a week, bit of a delay in this one just because I had to do a little research and planning for the events involved in the War of the Austrian Succession. Hopefully you enjoy TTL's version of Scotland's Darien Disaster.

I knew Scotland had to have a dark side, and this is it, IMO--when the time comes around, Scotland will have a lot to apologize for, methinks...

Waiting for more as I await the Super Bowl tomorrow...

Wonder what TTL's USA and Canda are like, and like the hints of a Scottish Western Cape (I assume this is OTL western South Africa) and New Zealand...

Scotland most certainly won't be emerging from the 18th and 19th Century smelling of roses, that's for certain.

 

[Unknown]

Scotland most certainly won't be emerging from the 18th and 19th Century smelling of roses, that's for certain.

Which makes this realistic, IMO, for the era, as awful as it is...

 

[Nazi Space Spy]

Loving the Florida lore here, speaking as a Floridian. Brings me back to 4th grade history class.

 

[Ghazghkull]

Map of southern Colonial North America
Dated 1742, aftermath of the Spanish Conquest of New Douglas

Following the Spanish victory over the Scottish colony of New Douglas, Spain established control over the territory south of the Altamaha and Coosa Rivers. England had originally claimed large parts of the territory for its Georgia Colony, but had ceded it to Scotland in 1735, and did not have the military forces necessary to launch a successful invasion of the territory after the collapse of the Scottish colony.

English troops occupied the town of Darien after the Scottish settlers had abandoned it, however it was not heavily fortified and considered to be unable to repeal a Spanish invasion should it occur. Instead the English set about developing river forts along the Altamaha, which the Spanish responded to with their own series of fortifications. Over the course of the War of the Austrian Succession, Spanish and English America would engage in multiple skirmishes and Spain would launch an abortive invasion of Georgia, but neither would gain an advantage over the other's territorial holdings.

 

[Unknown]

I get the feeling that Florida and Georgia's borders are different from OTL...

 

[Ghazghkull]

I get the feeling that Florida and Georgia's borders are different from OTL...

Truthfully, I don't yet know exactly how different the US's borders (both nationally and with the states) are going to be. Florida's expansion is likely to make a change but we'll see how things develop.

For America, TTL's major effect so far is not on geography but immigration. Many Scots-Irish presbyterians that fled Ireland (particularly Ulster) for the colonies due to the Protestant/Anglican Ascendancy in the OTL, have simply not done so in this timeline. They've instead been forced to return to Scotland. In the OTL, many Scottish nobles and merchants supported Ulster-Scots in travelling to the colonies and they were given land grants. With Scotland's independence, the English crown simply isn't willing to give up such generous grants to citizens of "questionable loyalty" and many of the Anglican Irish want the Ulster-Scots out of the country.

This period of Irish immigration to Scotland is generally referred to as the "First Wave", as a number of other events will lead to large numbers of Irish immigration to Scotland - mostly famously as a result of the Great Famine in the 1840s and 50s.

 

[Unknown]

This period of Irish immigration to Scotland is generally referred to as the "First Wave", as a number of other events will lead to large numbers of Irish immigration to Scotland - mostly famously as a result of the Great Famine in the 1840s and 50s.

The US will still get some immigrants--hell, probably the majority of immigrants (there's a lot more land area in the mid-1800s), IMO, but Scotland having more Irish people among their population will be interesting, to say the least...

Methinks there might be two (or even three) states carved out of Florida when it becomes part of the US--North Florida, South Florida, and/or West Florida...

Waiting for more, of course...

 

[Ghazghkull]

The US will still get some immigrants--hell, probably the majority of immigrants (there's a lot more land area in the mid-1800s), IMO, but Scotland having more Irish people among their population will be interesting, to say the least...

Methinks there might be two (or even three) states carved out of Florida when it becomes part of the US--North Florida, South Florida, and/or West Florida...

Waiting for more, of course...

Oh when I say the major effect being immigration, I more mean because of the absence of notable individuals. The American colonies and future United States, much like the OTL, will still be attracting large numbers of immigrants to their shores from Ireland and many other places.

But there's a fair number of interesting and high-profile individuals that are of Scottish or Scots-Irish descent that are going to find themselves on the other side of the pond or, in some cases, north of the 49th Parallel in Scottish-controlled Colonial Canada. However, I intend to place some fairly strict rules on myself in terms of justifying how these individuals might or might not remain in Scotland. To offer up two examples of people with Scottish/Scots-Irish heritage that some might think could differ from the OTL as examples of this.

James Monroe, OTL 5th US President. Monroe has clear Scottish links, most of his prior family are either directly from Scotland or Scot-Irish transplants and with core links to a large clan his family would have real reason to find themselves in Scotland after the Dissolution. However, the name carrier of Monroe's family (his great-great-grandfather) moved to America in 1650. This is pre-POD and therefore I'm ranking him as invalid to remain in Scotland on that basis.

Sam Houston, OTL Governor and President of Texas. Houston, like Monroe, has prominent links to Scotland. His family only immigrated to the States in 1735, significantly after the POD. They were only one-generation deep in Ireland and had wealthy family still in Scotland with political power and patronage to offer. All of this points to Houston returning to Scotland, and so Houston is ranked as a vaild possible transplant. However, they were as much 'economic migrants' to the States as religious ones and so it's reasonable to assume they'd likely make their way to the colonies anyways. That means ITTL, Houston's great-grandfather (John Houston) does return to Scotland but becomes part of the Darien Colony and is forced into fleeing to English-controlled Georgia after the Spanish conquest. Therefore Houston will still end up an American citizen, but just in a roundabout way.

My aim with this TL is to offer a someway realistic possible version of events, and so I don’t intend to just take every interesting American with Scottish links and plank them in Scotland. But there’s some interesting people I feel like could well have ended up in Scotland thanks to this POD and I’m going to explore that. I will also admit, this justification allows for me to imagine events unfolding differently in the USA and provides a more enjoyable Alt Timeline for me to create and hopefully for you guys to enjoy and involve yourselves with.

 

[Unknown]

My aim with this TL is to offer a someway realistic possible version of events, and so I don’t intend to just take every interesting American with Scottish links and plank them in Scotland. But there’s some interesting people I feel like could well have ended up in Scotland thanks to this POD and I’m going to explore that. I will also admit, this justification allows for me to imagine events unfolding differently in the USA and provides a more enjoyable Alt Timeline for me to create and hopefully for you guys to enjoy and involve yourselves with.

That's good, @Ghazghkull. One family who could wind up in Scotland is the Kennedy family, IMO (assuming they aren't butterflied away)...

Still, good comments and waiting for more of this TL...

 

[Nazi Space Spy]

Flora MacDonald would make an interesting Thatcher-analogue. She was of Scottish background. I use her in a lot of my lists and have recommended her before in other projects because she's such a unique figure within Canadian history to me. There's also a great documentary on her 1976 leadership campaign that's worth watching.

Obituary: Flora MacDonald CC, politician

Born: 3 June, 1926, in North Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada. Died: 26 July, 2015, in Ottawa, aged 89.

www.scotsman.com

Flora: Scenes from a Leadership Convention

This feature documentary offers an incisive look at Canadian politics at the 1976 Progressive Conservative Party leadership convention. Cape Bretoner Flora MacDonald is campaigning for the Party’s leadership, …

www.nfb.ca

 

[Ghazghkull]

Flora MacDonald

I love Flora MacDonald! She is such an interesting figure, would have made an interesting Canadian PM I suspect. However, the only Thatcher-analogue she offers is the "woman fighting against male-dominated politics" theme. She was an incredibly different figure to Thatcher in almost every regard IMO, had Flora remained in Britain she'd definitely have been an opposing force to Thatcher - probably would have been one of the SDP defectors - but I'm going off on a tangent.

When I first worked up drafts of the lists of PMs from 1707 to now, Flora was always in there. However, as this has become a more expanded project, Flora is now, sadly, likely to suffer from my rules of plausibility. Her family (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aZz213hdj3EC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA271#v=onepage&q&f=false) emigrated to Nova Scotia and ITTL it's firmly a colony of Scotland (at least for now).

But you never know, I might find a way of keeping her in Scotland when we get to her time period. Thanks for the doc though, definitely going to give that a watch!

 

[Assouf]

Map of southern Colonial North America
Dated 1742, aftermath of the Spanish Conquest of New Douglas

Following the Spanish victory over the Scottish colony of New Douglas, Spain established control over the territory south of the Altamaha and Coosa Rivers. England had originally claimed large parts of the territory for its Georgia Colony, but had ceded it to Scotland in 1735, and did not have the military forces necessary to launch a successful invasion of the territory after the collapse of the Scottish colony.

English troops occupied the town of Darien after the Scottish settlers had abandoned it, however it was not heavily fortified and considered to be unable to repeal a Spanish invasion should it occur. Instead the English set about developing river forts along the Altamaha, which the Spanish responded to with their own series of fortifications. Over the course of the War of the Austrian Succession, Spanish and English America would engage in multiple skirmishes and Spain would launch an abortive invasion of Georgia, but neither would gain an advantage over the other's territorial holdings.

Lovely map, but I just have to complain that the font used for country/colony names is really hard to read.