Alright, so, hello alternate history people! I'm new to the forum and alternate history and general but here's my first attempt at a TL. So, the POD is that in late 6th century Visigothic Spain, Liuvigild and Hermenegild (joint rulers) never get into a civil war, so neither Hermenegild nor his brother Reccared convert to mainstream Christianity. So, King Reccared (who in OTL was the first Gothic king to not follow Arian Christianity) keeps on expanding like Liuvigild did, so you have a strong Visigothic state that can repel the Muslim invasion of 711. Thoughts, anybody?
Gothica
- Thread starter Porphyrogenitus
- Start date
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- Tags
- europe goths sixth century spain
Donald Reaver
Donor
Welcome to the forum, do not know much about that time period, looking forward to learning more.
Thank you! Here's a Wikipedia article on the Visigothic Kingdom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigothic_Kingdom
I have a timeline that's been more or less figured out but it's more creative license than anything else. The Arabs end up colonizing Cuba and the Dominican Republic and the Lombards assassinate the Byzantine Empress. It makes sense in context, granted. I'd like to know your thoughts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigothic_Kingdom
I have a timeline that's been more or less figured out but it's more creative license than anything else. The Arabs end up colonizing Cuba and the Dominican Republic and the Lombards assassinate the Byzantine Empress. It makes sense in context, granted. I'd like to know your thoughts.
The monarchy was very unstable by nature, if you butterfly one civil war that won't automatically strengthen the kingdom, the nobility and the clergy were very powerful. If you are interested in Visigothic Iberia I suggest Roger Collins Visigothic Spain, it's a very interesting book and there are pdf versions online.
Hmm. I look forward to reading this. My reasoning behind it is that (although I may be wrong) this was an important civil war since the Kingdom adopted Orthodox Christianity. I hypothesize that this is the real event that weakened the kingdom.
I had the idea of the eventual Gothic Empire possessing most of the Frankish Kingdom's area, and then the Norse and the Lombards could be under its sphere of influence?
If anything you can argue that adopting Roman Catholicism strengthened the kingdom in the long term, because with it the diference between romani and gothi begun to diminished which eventually lead to the Visigothic Code that strengthened the Kingdom when they were in a very low point.
Hello, welcome to the forum. Look forward to your timeline. Although, I must profess I'm a little sad that St. Hermenegild doesn't convert to Orthodox Christianity (and thereby missing out on his canonization, he's been a sort of favourite of mine since I found out I'm born on his feast day (yay!))
Fair, but, if Roman Catholicism wasn't adopted, there wouldn't be a need for the Visigothic Code since the Gothic Church (to my understanding, a loose collection of bishops) wasn't as organized and all-powerful as the Catholic Church. I suppose there's no accounting for the nobility. The unrest in the kingdom really only followed Hermenegild's and Reccared's conversions and that civil war. Since Liuvigild started a "dynasty" of sorts, there would no longer be an elective monarchy; instead, you'd have dynastic succession. That or this is a weak POD. Either way, it originated as a linguistic experiment—a real East Germanic branch of the family.
Are you planning to make the Visigoths remain arians? If so then the chances of them having a chance against muslims would be even lower as all the hispano-romans were catholic.If I were you I would start with Don Julian not betraying Rodrigo and then a strong visigothic victory against the muslims in Guadalete.Going back to the 6th century is a bit too far fetched in my opinion
Well I was planning for Arian Visigoths, but that's a way to do it. I suppose there'd no longer be a chance for religious tension with the Byzantines. However, you'd still have an unstable elective monarchy which couldn't possibly last very long. Perhaps the Franks would take Iberia over.
An interesting premise for a timeline! I have to admit that I know more about the Ostrogoths than the Visigoths (something that I'm hoping to fix for my own timeline - I really need to explore the situation in Hispania and Gaul in more detail), but I would love to check out your work!