"Goring's Reich" An Alternate World War II
- Thread starter galveston bay
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- world war 2
Would make sense. If you plan on having a "cooling off" period between the defeat of Imperial Japan and the end of Goering's Reich then splitting off to make a new TL to deal with what isn't strictly part of WWII is for the best.
Also it would prevent this thread from becoming overly long
Also it would prevent this thread from becoming overly long
Yep, bite the bullet on it and quit. You'll feel better once you get that demon off your back.
Anyway, more than anything else, the Germans should've gotten peace when they could. They dropped that ball in favor of politics, but so it goes. With war primed to go on strong for several years more now, war fatigue is going to be an issue for all sides.
Anyway, more than anything else, the Germans should've gotten peace when they could. They dropped that ball in favor of politics, but so it goes. With war primed to go on strong for several years more now, war fatigue is going to be an issue for all sides.
its more about how dangerous Germany is with all of the resources of Europe behind it than the humanitarian motivations, but the UN Reports help with popular support
everyone is pretending it was all the fault of Stalin and Beria and as they are dead, it is an easy sell.
Yeah, we (the US) were willing to turn a blind eye to that rather than loose a valuable ally. So in this timeline it is even easier to dust under the carpet, or bury in mass graves in the middle of the wilderness.
there were some, including a Katyn Forest type massacre, but it was on a much smaller scale because basically the Soviet invasion did not result in all that many Polish, Rumanian or German prisoners ... while the Volga Germans suffered, they were exchanged later on. There was no time for some of the historical mass deportations that Stalin carried out (like the Crimean Taters). The Ukrainians certainly aren't forgetting what they suffered at Stalins hands, nor are other minorities still under Soviet control, but at least in Soviet territory that is being brushed under the rug and blamed on Stalin
I haven't posted it yet, but on November 1, 1944 the Partisans rise up in both places..... so they make the news as it were. The Soviets are trying to influence the American election as they want the Democrats to win, even if Wallace isn't on the ballot they still prefer the Democrats (who have supported the Soviets) to the Republicans (who they still think are isolationists who like the Nazis)
Hmm. "Why we fight", phrase that was used OTL as name of propaganda campaign, is gonna be tricky question to answer ITTL, given that some loud people will be of opinion that USA/UK keeps fighting Germany for no reason, given that Germany offered peace that was rejected.
"Why we fight?! Germany already offered to leave France, so what's the point of millions of our boys dying on European shores?!"
"Why we fight?! Germany already offered to leave France, so what's the point of millions of our boys dying on European shores?!"
this is indeed a political problem.... but note that the Germans divided up Belgium, and Portugal remains part of Spain and of course the Free French would like their country back
There is also the fact that the Latin Americans (who are actively in this war, which you will see better when I post the various OBs later on) want to liberate Portugal and Spain from Axis control. A lot of pressure in the UN to drive the Germans out of Western Europe
grumpy today... a poster whose work I really like has been banned (I won't go into details or point fingers) and I am very disappointed. Anyway I do intend to continue this
tired of being sick but I finally seem to be on the mend
tired of being sick but I finally seem to be on the mend
Summary Part I Gorings Reich: The Victorious Years
early 1930s Goring becomes sober after nearly dying from a drug overdose and more effectively manages the 4 year plan and Luftwaffe buildup
1930s Hitler as Fuhrer centralizes control over Germany, annexes Austria and Czechslovakia. The French government panics after Austria and begins a crash project to extend the Maginot Line to the sea, which along with Belgian decisions makes it clear to outside powers that France intends a defensive war only
spring 1939 Goring assassinates Hitler, Hess, and Borman, puts blame on Himmler who is crushed by Army and Luftwaffe, Goring assumes full power as Fuhrer. Poles and Balts ally with Germany as it is clear the French can't be trusted to keep their word and attack Germany if Germany attacks Poland. Japan suffers embarrassment at the hands of Zhukov in Mongolia
Summer 1939 Stalin panics at this new Fascist alliance and attacks, meets disaster and defeat, Japan prepares for another round with Soviets, gets German help
Spring - Fall 1940 Fascist crusade (with Japan too) defeats Stalin, imposes a harsh peace treaty, Stalin is executed by Politburo. Western Allies prepare for war
Winter 1940-41 Goring persuades German people that reversing Versailles and 1918 are possible, plans made to deal with France, Allies attempt to neutralize Spain and plot to demolish Italy certain that they can hold the Maginot Line against Germany
Spring 1941 Germany attacks France, Norway, Denmark, and Netherlands, begin Battle of the Atlantic. Germany and allies attack Greece. Western Allies attack Italians in Libya and E Africa. German surface fleet defeated at Broad Fourteens. Americans begins Lend Lease
Summer 1941 France suffers disaster as Germans crash through Maginot Line, Norway and Denmark falls, Greece falls, Allies win in Libya and E Africa. Japan crushes China with improved weapons and logistics.
Late summer 1941 French government flees to Algeria with what it can evacuate, Belgium and Netherlands fall, British and some Dutch and Belgian forces evacuated from. Allied shipping losses climb, US moves toward intervention in Atlantic. Allied surface fleets shifted from Southeast Asia to Mediterranean Sea.
Fall 1941 Germans begin Battle of Britain aimed at supporting Battle of Atlantic, fierce air battles inflict heavy attrition on RAF and Luftwaffe.
Japan enters war, destroys Allied navies in Southeast Asia, conquer French Indochina, Malaya, Dutch East Indies, Wake Island, Guam, Gilbert Islands, New Ireland, Darwin, but run into problems in the Philippines against a well prepared American/Filipino defense under Krueger and Wainwright
Winter 1941-42 Axis invade Tunisia by air and sea, threaten Algeria. American troops sent to North Africa. Allied defensive victory in Algeria
Japanese overrun Burma and invade India. Dutch East Indies conquered, Continued success in Philippines by Allies
Spring - Fall 1942 Climax of Battle of Atlantic, Allied Combined Bomber offensive postponed to throw resources into survival at sea
Spring 1942 Philippines finally falls, word of Japanese widespread atrocities reaches US and UK, continued fighting in Algeria and Libya, stalemate
Doolittle Raid against Japan, American offensive in Pacific, first major carrier battle
Summer - Fall 1942 Japan vs Allies at sea, Air raid on Seattle, fall of Aleutians, Allied victory at Darwin, Allied victory at Guadalcanal, Second Japanese campaign in India and collapse of the Raj
Fall 1942- Winter 1943 Truce and the Great Exchange... all POWs and many internees transferred, Allies turn down Axis peace treaty demands
Spring 1943 Turkey joins Axis, Axis offensive takes Baku, Armenia, Georgia, Persia, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. United Kingdom sues for peace with Germany, other Western Allies and Soviets agree to armistice. Churchill is replaced by Attlee. All available resources thrown at Japan. 3rd India Campaign results in Allied victory and decisive Japanese defeat
Fall 1942 - Fall 1945 India falls into chaos, faces the Bengal Famine, civil disorder and ethnic / religious riots, order gradually restored and Indian Federation with independent Pakistan, Sikhistan, and several other states created but this keeps large numbers of British troops tied down and ends possibility of a Burma front.
Spring - Fall 1944 Soviet offensive destroys Japanese forces in Mongolia, Sinkiang, North China Allied offensive in Pacific takes Aleutians, Solomon Islands, New Guinea, Marshal Islands, Southern and central Philippines, battles of Marshal Islands, Philippine Sea and Sulu Sea destroy the Japanese Navy as a fighting force
Summer 1944 First meeting of the United Nations with English speaking nations and Latin Americans (less Argentina) as founding members
Franklin Roosevelt dies, replaced by Wallace
Fall 1944 US Presidential Election, Truman wins, vows to achieve victory over Germany and its allies. UN Report on Axis atrocities, pro-Fascist coup in Argentina, Boer Nationalist Party takes power in South Africa (which leaves the war with Japan and declares neutrality), Unconditional surrender policy announced for Japan. Massive celebrations held in Germany for Octoberfest to celebrate victory
early 1930s Goring becomes sober after nearly dying from a drug overdose and more effectively manages the 4 year plan and Luftwaffe buildup
1930s Hitler as Fuhrer centralizes control over Germany, annexes Austria and Czechslovakia. The French government panics after Austria and begins a crash project to extend the Maginot Line to the sea, which along with Belgian decisions makes it clear to outside powers that France intends a defensive war only
spring 1939 Goring assassinates Hitler, Hess, and Borman, puts blame on Himmler who is crushed by Army and Luftwaffe, Goring assumes full power as Fuhrer. Poles and Balts ally with Germany as it is clear the French can't be trusted to keep their word and attack Germany if Germany attacks Poland. Japan suffers embarrassment at the hands of Zhukov in Mongolia
Summer 1939 Stalin panics at this new Fascist alliance and attacks, meets disaster and defeat, Japan prepares for another round with Soviets, gets German help
Spring - Fall 1940 Fascist crusade (with Japan too) defeats Stalin, imposes a harsh peace treaty, Stalin is executed by Politburo. Western Allies prepare for war
Winter 1940-41 Goring persuades German people that reversing Versailles and 1918 are possible, plans made to deal with France, Allies attempt to neutralize Spain and plot to demolish Italy certain that they can hold the Maginot Line against Germany
Spring 1941 Germany attacks France, Norway, Denmark, and Netherlands, begin Battle of the Atlantic. Germany and allies attack Greece. Western Allies attack Italians in Libya and E Africa. German surface fleet defeated at Broad Fourteens. Americans begins Lend Lease
Summer 1941 France suffers disaster as Germans crash through Maginot Line, Norway and Denmark falls, Greece falls, Allies win in Libya and E Africa. Japan crushes China with improved weapons and logistics.
Late summer 1941 French government flees to Algeria with what it can evacuate, Belgium and Netherlands fall, British and some Dutch and Belgian forces evacuated from. Allied shipping losses climb, US moves toward intervention in Atlantic. Allied surface fleets shifted from Southeast Asia to Mediterranean Sea.
Fall 1941 Germans begin Battle of Britain aimed at supporting Battle of Atlantic, fierce air battles inflict heavy attrition on RAF and Luftwaffe.
Japan enters war, destroys Allied navies in Southeast Asia, conquer French Indochina, Malaya, Dutch East Indies, Wake Island, Guam, Gilbert Islands, New Ireland, Darwin, but run into problems in the Philippines against a well prepared American/Filipino defense under Krueger and Wainwright
Winter 1941-42 Axis invade Tunisia by air and sea, threaten Algeria. American troops sent to North Africa. Allied defensive victory in Algeria
Japanese overrun Burma and invade India. Dutch East Indies conquered, Continued success in Philippines by Allies
Spring - Fall 1942 Climax of Battle of Atlantic, Allied Combined Bomber offensive postponed to throw resources into survival at sea
Spring 1942 Philippines finally falls, word of Japanese widespread atrocities reaches US and UK, continued fighting in Algeria and Libya, stalemate
Doolittle Raid against Japan, American offensive in Pacific, first major carrier battle
Summer - Fall 1942 Japan vs Allies at sea, Air raid on Seattle, fall of Aleutians, Allied victory at Darwin, Allied victory at Guadalcanal, Second Japanese campaign in India and collapse of the Raj
Fall 1942- Winter 1943 Truce and the Great Exchange... all POWs and many internees transferred, Allies turn down Axis peace treaty demands
Spring 1943 Turkey joins Axis, Axis offensive takes Baku, Armenia, Georgia, Persia, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. United Kingdom sues for peace with Germany, other Western Allies and Soviets agree to armistice. Churchill is replaced by Attlee. All available resources thrown at Japan. 3rd India Campaign results in Allied victory and decisive Japanese defeat
Fall 1942 - Fall 1945 India falls into chaos, faces the Bengal Famine, civil disorder and ethnic / religious riots, order gradually restored and Indian Federation with independent Pakistan, Sikhistan, and several other states created but this keeps large numbers of British troops tied down and ends possibility of a Burma front.
Spring - Fall 1944 Soviet offensive destroys Japanese forces in Mongolia, Sinkiang, North China Allied offensive in Pacific takes Aleutians, Solomon Islands, New Guinea, Marshal Islands, Southern and central Philippines, battles of Marshal Islands, Philippine Sea and Sulu Sea destroy the Japanese Navy as a fighting force
Summer 1944 First meeting of the United Nations with English speaking nations and Latin Americans (less Argentina) as founding members
Franklin Roosevelt dies, replaced by Wallace
Fall 1944 US Presidential Election, Truman wins, vows to achieve victory over Germany and its allies. UN Report on Axis atrocities, pro-Fascist coup in Argentina, Boer Nationalist Party takes power in South Africa (which leaves the war with Japan and declares neutrality), Unconditional surrender policy announced for Japan. Massive celebrations held in Germany for Octoberfest to celebrate victory
even though I posting a second timeline on the pre 1900 forum I am still continuing work on this one in case anyone is wondering