Good Civi War Confederate Victory PODs never used or heard of before

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
Here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment
This would have been the 13th Amendment to the Constitution.
Full text:
"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State."
One Amendment giveth, another taketh away ...
 
No one's posted the biggest one yet: Glendale, 30 June 1862.
Stonewall Jackson is his usual aggressive self and completes the encirclement of McClellan's army with Longstreet, inflicting a second Cannae on the Union. With the Army of the Potomac crippled, the North has nothing with which to oppose Lee in Northern Virginia, putting Washington itself in danger.
 
Toombs advice not to fire on Fort Sumter is taken.

Kill Hood sometime between Chattanooga and Kenasaw Mountain. Hardee replaces Johnston.

Albert Sydney Johnston lives longer and turns out to be as talented as Lee.

Cleburne's suggestion of using black troops is somehow accepted and successful (longest shot here but probably not quite ASB long as some people hear would have you believe).

AoT officer shoots Bragg and all swear up and down it was accidental.

Forrest's gifts recognized sooner.

Ft. Donalson successfully evacuated or holds longer, allowing the AoT to fight 1862 and part of 1863 supplied from the industrial center of Nashville which otl fell in Feb. 1862.

Hope that was helpful.

1) The first one was the POD in a timeline I'd was playing around with in my spare time, but I never really had the time to flesh out the idea completely. Without direct conflict between the Union and the Confederacy, the Union blunders its way into war with the United Kingdom over the Trent Affair. What really happens after that was something I never fleshed out all that much.

2) There's no guarantee here that Atlanta won't fall, but it would certainly make things more difficult for Sherman.

3) ASJ timelines really aren't all that common. We don't really have much evidence as to his talent, but a smashing victory at Shiloh would have been a great setback for the Union for sure. In Dixie Victorious, one scenario has ASJ surviving his wounds at Shiloh. He is able to defeat Grant in 1863 and prevent the capture of Vicksburg.

4) Cleburne's suggestion of using black troops was explored by one member of this site years ago and it was called "The Black and the Gray." The author died a few years ago. The scenario was also briefly touched upon in Dixie Victorious.

For the timeline in question:
http://www.geocities.ws/robertp6165/blackconfederatecontents.html

5) As far as eliminating Bragg goes, I'm still not sure how much that would have actually helped or hurt the Confederates. It could be an interesting timeline.

6) This one could be interesting.

7) Anything that would have prolonged the war in the West would have improved the situation for the Confederates. It doesn't guarantee Confederate victory, but it could make for an interesting story.

There are some strange ideas I've kicked around in my head over the years. Here are a few odd PODs.

1) Sherman's wife dies before the war, leading Sherman to marry into a Louisiana family in 1859 following his move to Pineville, Louisiana. Sherman reluctantly decides to support the CSA thanks to the influence of his wife.

2) Thomas Jackson decides to remain loyal to the Union rather than side with Virginia when it secedes.

3) Robert E. Lee achieves a Cannae at the Battle of Glendale when Stonewall Jackson's troops arrive on time. I've seen this scenario explored before, but the implications of this one are pretty massive.

4) Reverse Antietam: Confederates win despite the Union having their invasion plans. It's unlikely, but it would be downright embarrassing for McClellan.

5) The Union violates Kentucky's neutrality first.

6) Better Antietam: The Army of Potomac is able to destroy the Army of Northern Virginia. Robert E. Lee spends the rest of the war as a prisoner of war.

7) The Confederates do not place an embargo on selling cotton to foreign markets. They are able to play the victim much easier.

8) The Union wins at First Bull Run: There's no guarantee the Union would be able to take Richmond this early in the war and it may make the Union a bit overconfident. This could be really interesting.

No one's posted the biggest one yet: Glendale, 30 June 1862.
Stonewall Jackson is his usual aggressive self and completes the encirclement of McClellan's army with Longstreet, inflicting a second Cannae on the Union. With the Army of the Potomac crippled, the North has nothing with which to oppose Lee in Northern Virginia, putting Washington itself in danger.

You posted this while I was posting the same idea. That's awesome.
 
It costs a shit-ton more to feed, house and secure slaves than it does to pay workers and send them on their way, especially given the labor surplus in the start of industrialization.

I see this asserted a lot, but I'm not so sure. After all, factory workers need to pay for their food and housing out of their wages, so a factory owner is paying for these things just as much as a slave owner is. I guess there'd be extra administrative costs and what-have-you from having to actually organise their housing instead of just giving them money and letting them find a place themselves, but against that you don't have to pay them any spending money and there's no real upwards pressure on wages (if your workers can get higher wages elsewhere, they will; if your slaves would have a higher standard of living under another owner, tough).

ETA: Though it's quite possible I'm just being economically naïve here, so I'm open to correction.
 
I see this asserted a lot, but I'm not so sure. After all, factory workers need to pay for their food and housing out of their wages, so a factory owner is paying for these things just as much as a slave owner is. I guess there'd be extra administrative costs and what-have-you from having to actually organise their housing instead of just giving them money and letting them find a place themselves, but against that you don't have to pay them any spending money and there's no real upwards pressure on wages (if your workers can get higher wages elsewhere, they will; if your slaves would have a higher standard of living under another owner, tough).

ETA: Though it's quite possible I'm just being economically naïve here, so I'm open to correction.

Understand just how low wages were when the Industrial Revolution kicked off. Because there were far more workers than positions, there was a “race to the bottom,” as if workers were playing a sort of horrifying Name That Tune with wages (“I’ll work for ten cents a day!” “I’ll do it for eight cents a day!” “Seven cents!” “Do that job.”) The horribly low wages couldn’t be equaled by slaves because the built-in costs made them inherently more expensive than workers, never mind that slaves had to be bought and workers could just be hired. Post-IR capitalism was almost too easy for industrialists. Slave owners just couldn’t keep up.
 
I have also thought of Ace Venom's number 1, the Sherman as Confederate. From there he becomes commander of LA forces and gets the command Polk (yuk) got watching western KY. Sherman in Mo matching wits with Grant in south IL over who violates KY first. I bet on Sherman and right there is a logical POD for Confederate victory. Grant moves first. KY joins CSA. Grant gets sacked and is finished. Sherman and CSA controls west and central KY. Let us take it from there.
 
IIRC, Sherman and Bragg were actually friends before the war. Would be interesting to see what Bragg could do with a capable and supportive Corp commander instead of Polk.
 
Nearly all of the suggestions in this thread would help the CSA, without giving the CSA victory.

Here's one that IMO does.

A month before Farragut's attack on New Orleans, a hurricane runs right over the Union base on Ship Island, damaging many warships and transports, wrecking docks and barracks and storehouses, etc. The damage delays the attack by a month, allowing the CSN to complete the ironclads Louisiana and Mississippi at New Orleans. When Farragut attacks, the ironclads smash his wooden warships.

The ironclads then sortie from the Mississippi with a fleet of gunboats and transports to take Ship Island. Next they assist in taking Fort Pickens. The Union blockade of the Gulf Coast is removed permanently.

The CSA imports lots of small arms, cannon, railroad equipment, and even fully equipped ironclad warships, paid for with unhampered cotton exports. With imported British engines, guns, and armor, they build a powerful riverine fleet.

Confederate ironclad gunboats drive up the Mississippi, defeating the Union's Eads gunboats. The CSA captures Cairo, St. Louis, and Louisville, and regains Nashville.

Meanwhile, the much better armed (and clothed and shod and fed) Army of Virginia inflicts a crushing defeat on the Army of the Potomac.

"Peace" conventions in Illinois, Indiana, and New York call on Lincoln to end the war. He yields and the US recognizes the CSA on 1 January 1863.
 
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ACW was a game where only winning move was to not play.
Secede, but do not attack fort Sumter.
That's it.
Before Fort Sumter, nobody in the North recognized secession, but neither did anyone want to use force to enforce that point.
CSA can last indefinitely if it isn't attacked by the North. So why give yankees excuse to invade? Why play to their strength that is industrial and military power?
Winning militarily might've been impossible, but tiring Union through semi-passive resistance into giving up was achievable.
1864 US elections will most likely be won by candidate that seizes on public being tired of standoff with South, relations will get normalized and secession recognized.

BTW, if CSA peacefully rejoins Union once Corwin Amendment is passed, I consider it Confederate victory.
 

Art

Monthly Donor
Glorieta Pass was a Confederate victory, except for one thing. . .

Sibley's supply train was destroyed by the 3rd Colorado. And the California Column was already on it's way to New Mexico as Glorieta Pass is being fought. The California Column even fought a skirmish with Sibley's Confederate's at the Battle of Pichacho Pass. That is one of the reasons Sibley retreated to Texas, the main other one being that the Confederate's had lost blanket's, tent's, ammunition and other supplies in the destruction of the supply train, and were hundreds of miles from friendly territory and supplies.
 
President Lincoln is killed at the Battle of Fort Stevens, Gen. McClellan wins the election.

Or Gen. Wallace messes up again and fails to meet the Confederates at Monocasy, and they end up raiding Washington and heavily damaging it.
 
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