Gone The New Hope
- Thread starter The Admiral Hook
- Start date
Good to see this updated again! If you don't mind a few scattered observations...
I am curious as to how Canada placed, as they were hampered IOTL by being part of the same preliminary group as the Soviets and would likely have done very well indeed without them. Also, with all due respect, American athletes coming in first place in yet another event is a less compelling narrative than a fallen country reclaiming their primacy (though, perhaps, I might be biased ).
All that said, this does make the 1984 Los Angeles games far less likely to be boycotted by the Soviets, since they already did their part in 1980.
Microsoft and Apple, merged together? There will be no stopping them!
I have nothing in particular to say about the politics other than saying that I can tell it's vultan who is writing about them Keep up the good work, you two.
Interesting to see a reciprocal boycott of the respective 1980 Olympics, though I must protest that the USA winning the gold medal for hockey (not men's hockey, because there was no women's hockey until 1998) is a disappointing OTL result
I am curious as to how Canada placed, as they were hampered IOTL by being part of the same preliminary group as the Soviets and would likely have done very well indeed without them. Also, with all due respect, American athletes coming in first place in yet another event is a less compelling narrative than a fallen country reclaiming their primacy (though, perhaps, I might be biased ).All that said, this does make the 1984 Los Angeles games far less likely to be boycotted by the Soviets, since they already did their part in 1980.
And here's where Miyamoto enters the equation. It should be interesting to see where this relationship takes him, creatively speaking, for he (much like Lucas) enjoyed an early career of unparalleled success, before feeling the threat from rivals in his mid-career (hello, Rareware!) made him become overprotective of his work, and ever-more domineering (American fanon? Screw those Westerners! So what if they gave Mario his name, I AM THE BOSS!), before being reduced to coasting on his past glories (Super Mario Sunshine, anyone?), handing the real creative control to his underlings while still meddling, always with poor results (eliminating the planned storyline in Super Mario Galaxy 2, forcing the developers of Paper Mario: Sticker Star to completely change their planned gameplay mechanic because he didn't like it). Yes, speaking as a lifelong Nintendo and Mario fanboy, Miyamoto has definitely fallen far since the 1980s. The Lucas parallels are quite remarkable - and if you can prevent Jorge, well...The Admiral Hook said:
Subtle
Well then!The Admiral Hook said:
Microsoft and Apple, merged together? There will be no stopping them!Blade Runner with Robert De Niro. Still not as out there as Dustin Hoffman (an OTL finalist for the role, apparently, if you can believe it) but no doubt a very different film.The Admiral Hook said:
I have nothing in particular to say about the politics other than saying that I can tell it's vultan who is writing about them
Keep up the good work, you two.Good to see this updated again! If you don't mind a few scattered observations...
All that said, this does make the 1984 Los Angeles games far less likely to be boycotted by the Soviets, since they already did their part in 1980.
And here's where Miyamoto enters the equation. It should be interesting to see where this relationship takes him, creatively speaking, for he (much like Lucas) enjoyed an early career of unparalleled success, before feeling the threat from rivals in his mid-career (hello, Rareware!) made him become overprotective of his work, and ever-more domineering (American fanon? Screw those Westerners! So what if they gave Mario his name, I AM THE BOSS!), before being reduced to coasting on his past glories (Super Mario Sunshine, anyone?), handing the real creative control to his underlings while still meddling, always with poor results (eliminating the planned storyline in Super Mario Galaxy 2, forcing the developers of Paper Mario: Sticker Star to completely change their planned gameplay mechanic because he didn't like it). Yes, speaking as a lifelong Nintendo and Mario fanboy, Miyamoto has definitely fallen far since the 1980s. The Lucas parallels are quite remarkable - and if you can prevent Jorge, well...
Subtle
Well then!
The main differen between miyamoto and lucas is that unlike movies, in videogames story is always a second because they're games and have to be fun to play(i don't care if you loved Heavy rain or other narrartive games, that is a taste, i liked some of those too, but those are different type of games, FFXIII was a failure because feels like a bad and long 3d movie with some 'interactice sequcence') thing who is the school of miyamoto.
Other thing he raise in carreer so fast when he start to lose control of his own ideas(Donkey Kong revival was miyamoto idea, rareware ACM game would have been anything) and that make more protective as any artist, but unlike movies, who have an academia and own board, videogames are part of the companies, like a toy, if the change the toy that is company.
But will be Interesing, not donkey kong means no Mario, thing will be interesting in the future.
About Applesoft(sounds better that Microapple),this interesting that is gates both chairman and CEO, what happened to Mr Jobs? that will be other more interesting butterfly.
Don't have to time to respond to all of you just yet, but I wanted to hop on and address Brainbin's comments on the Olympics.
OTL, the Miracle on Ice team was (and I believe still is) officially called the U.S. Men's Hockey Team... a little strange, I know, but I was sticking with the OTL method of description.
As for it being unoriginal that they won, I get it, but remember they won OTL against the team overwhelmingly favored to win.
They win here, but no one cares. The Miracle on Ice either never happens or is delayed until '84... Hockey's already slow start to becoming a big deal to very few Americans is further delayed: and this may turn out to be a good thing for the sport.
As to Nivek's observation that this TTL is nearing utopia, I'll say this: Reverse the phrase, "It's always darkest before the dawn..."
OTL, the Miracle on Ice team was (and I believe still is) officially called the U.S. Men's Hockey Team... a little strange, I know, but I was sticking with the OTL method of description.
As for it being unoriginal that they won, I get it, but remember they won OTL against the team overwhelmingly favored to win.
They win here, but no one cares. The Miracle on Ice either never happens or is delayed until '84... Hockey's already slow start to becoming a big deal to very few Americans is further delayed: and this may turn out to be a good thing for the sport.
As to Nivek's observation that this TTL is nearing utopia, I'll say this: Reverse the phrase, "It's always darkest before the dawn..."
As to Nivek's observation that this TTL is nearing utopia, I'll say this: Reverse the phrase, "It's always darkest before the dawn..."
........As to Nivek's observation that this TTL is nearing utopia, I'll say this: Reverse the phrase, "It's always darkest before the dawn..."
...The dawn is coming
Yes i deserved that, that was my bad sarcasm(mostly because i hate apple hipters) but the timeline have been amazing so far, when will come the next update.
Or will not Happen at all?(remember about not utopia)?
This a bump, thus when will have a update soon?
Being a brief bump to allay the fears of the loyal...
...don't wait up but an update is coming soon. I think this one's worth the wait.
Thanks again all of you for being so loyal, patient, helpful, encouraging, and inspiring.
...don't wait up but an update is coming soon. I think this one's worth the wait.
Thanks again all of you for being so loyal, patient, helpful, encouraging, and inspiring.
Sorry to get anyone's hopes up that expected an update.
This TL really is a priority of mine and Vultan's really been busting his ass on it to pick up the slack. I've had a lot of real life shit kinda flatten me lately, and combined with my lack of Internet and my increasingly busy schedule I haven't been capable of finishing up the next couple of updates. Yet.
Please take this time to discuss and reread this tl as much as you want to. This had the combined effects of inspiring us and introducing through discussion bumps this story to those who haven't yet become readers.
Again, I'm sorry I'm failing at the moment and thanks again for all of your patience and support.
This TL really is a priority of mine and Vultan's really been busting his ass on it to pick up the slack. I've had a lot of real life shit kinda flatten me lately, and combined with my lack of Internet and my increasingly busy schedule I haven't been capable of finishing up the next couple of updates. Yet.
Please take this time to discuss and reread this tl as much as you want to. This had the combined effects of inspiring us and introducing through discussion bumps this story to those who haven't yet become readers.
Again, I'm sorry I'm failing at the moment and thanks again for all of your patience and support.
JOHN ANDERSON: "...the way I saw it, Reagan had his base, who were essentially the Goldwater followers left over from 1964, whereas for Brown it was the McGovern voters from 1972. My campaign strategy - and it worked for a time, Gallup had me leading at one point - was to pitch myself to the middle part of the electorate. The moderates and independents."
MIKE WALLACE: "And why do you think that you were ultimately unsuccessful?"
JOHN ANDERSON: "In a way, I was successful. I was able to coalesce the moderate vote around my candidacy."
MIKE WALLACE: "What do you think of the charge that you were merely a spoiler for the Republicans that year?"
(long pause)
JOHN ANDERSON: "In a way, I can see where they're coming from. Despite the more... complicated results in the presidential election, that the Republicans actually won the House and Senate leads me to believe that the split-ticket voting hurt the Republicans more than the Democrats. But still, when you look at the-"
MIKE WALLACE: "Excuse me, but I have to ask: do you believe, as some have suggested, that adding a black man to your ticket hurt your chances?"
JOHN ANDERSON: "Well, firstly, I reject the cynical notion that in this day and age any significant number of Americans would not vote for someone solely due to the color of their skin. Think of it this way - between our ticket and the Democratic ticket, a strong majority of Americans chose a ticket with a person of color on it. And if we can talk about Ed (Brooke) specifically, I believe he added a lot to the campaign. He's very charismatic and an articulate speaker, and won over many classical New England moderates to our side. I wish him all the best in the upcoming Massachusetts gubernatorial election."
-John Anderson interview on 60 Minutes, 1982
"Fifty-state strategy, Jerry. That's your only viable path forward."
"…so, what you're saying is, you want me to try to be everything to everyone?"
"Oh, c'mon, it's more complicated than-"
"Give me a straight answer, Howard."
(long pause)
"Yes, Jerry, yes I do."
(longer pause)
"Well… how do we make this work?"
-Howard Dean, head advisor to the 1980 Jerry Brown campaign, giving advice to the man himself. Dean had worked his way up from a Democratic activist in formerly solidly-Republican Vermont to becoming a member of Brown's inner circle during primary system. After the Democratic National Convention, he proposed the aforementioned "fifty-state strategy". He believed that the Democrats had been conceding too much of the electoral map to the Republicans in recent decades, and believed that this trend needed to be reversed for his party to move forward.
On the other had, Brown believed that with Reagan consolidating the conservatives and Anderson consolidating the moderates, it would make little sense to do anything but run a liberal campaign, in order to rally the base. In the end, though, Dean convinced him to at least compete in every state, knowing that the highly-fractured electorate could allow him to make breakthroughs in unexpected areas. And, surprisingly, it did.
“I couldn’t believe my God damn ears. Ronald Reagan used the words ‘states rights’ and ‘civil rights’, both positively, in the same speech, in the same sentence, in the same breath, in the same mother fucking city where they killed Dr. King!”
- Coleman Young, Vice Presidential Candidate for the Democratic Party, 1980
“That was why he was the Great Communicator. He wasn’t a racist but he didn’t believe it was the government’s job to fix the racial issues in this country – LBJ ghettoizing the African American community less than twenty years before had shown that clearly enough. He also wasn’t an idiot. He knew race was a part of this election whether he liked it or not.
So, after a day around Memphis with Elvis Presley and the Mayor as hosts, including a brief speech, photo op, and prayer at the Lorraine Hotel, there was a rally at Graceland. The crowd was racially and politically diverse, and all ages were in attendance. He gave the ‘states rights and civil rights speech’ and people went crazy.
Had it been another man it might have backfired, but it was Ronnie. The blacks heard ‘civil’ and the southern whites heard ‘states’ and everyone cheered.
Had we gone to Philadelphia, Mississippi like we had at first planned, it might have been a catastrophe…”
- Jack Kemp, Vice Presidential Candidate for the Republican Party, 1980
"I'm sorry, I love Jack Kemp, but that man's a sap. He really believes all of that! Honestly, he bought the whole Republican package, the whole 'cutting taxes'... 'we want to cut this' crap. I mean, those kinds of phrases... it's transparently obvious to any voter what we were getting at. I was the man who produced the 'Soft on Crime' ad in the primaries. Yes, we were trying to appeal to the former Wallace voter, the Archie Bunkers of the world. And no amount of Uncle Toms the Grand Old Party parades around today will change the fact that the party has an economic policy that will never win over the blacks and the other racial minorities in large numbers, and that's no accident - that's by design!
...But I suppose the one redeeming thing about him (Kemp) is that he legitimately does not have a racist bone in his body. He really does think he's helping people..."
- Controversial deathbed interview with Republican strategist Lee Atwater, 1991
"Goddammit! Reagan's going soft on me! First he toned it down on state's rights… now he's denouncing our Senate candidate in California! Now why in the hell would he do that? John G. Schmitz is a good conservative! I tell you what it is, David. It's that Kemp. Had it been Rumsfeld, Bush… they would have gotten the memo. But this Kemp guy feels like he needs to be this Civil Rights hero. It's just… I feel like we conservatives need to send to send Reagan a nice big ol' message-"
You want to send him a message, Mr. Marshall? Cut a check for my brother's campaign. This is what I've been trying to tell you. The Libertarians are the viable conservative alternatives to the Republicans! Barry Goldwater's our Senate candidate! So send the message. Send the message that the Republicans ignore the right-wing at their own peril."
-J. Howard Marshall and David Koch having a conversation in a Texas country club. David's brother, Charles, was the running mate to Libertarian nominee Ed Clark in the 1980 presidential election.
"...and the mainstream media, when they even address my candidacy at all, they ask me two questions: 'Ed Clark, aren't you just like Ronald Reagan'-"
(Loud BOOES from the crowd, someone screams "TRAITOR!")
"...and then they ask why I am running if I have no chance of winning, according to them. Well, let me tell you something, folks. Rarely will you hear a Libertarian openly compare himself to a socialist, but let me tell you the story of Eugene V. Debs. A lot of you might not know who he is, but he was a very famous man in the early 20th century. He was an organizer for the Socialist Party known for his, uh, political skills. People asked him the very same question that they are asking me today when he threw his hat in the ring in 1912. And you know why he did it? To build up the down ballot strength of the Socialist Party. To get people elected to school boards, city councils, state legislatures... hell, maybe even Congress."
(Points out Dick Randolph, the Libertarian nominee for the House of Representatives from Alaska's at-large district, a former Republican state representatives. The crowd cheers loudly)
"...my friends, my friends... they'll call us extreme, but let me remind you all of a quote from our Senate candidate down in Arizona, Barry Goldwater--"
(The crowd goes absolutely wild)
"...extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!"
-Ed Clark presidential rally in Anchorage, Alaska
~~~
Later, Ed Clark is being interviewed by the Anchorage Daily News.
REPORTER: "Seeing how you appropriated a lot of Goldwater's rhetoric, and how the audience reacted to that, is it fair to say that Goldwater deciding to run for reelection as a Libertarian this year garnered your campaign a lot of extra publicity, maybe even inflated your poll numbers a bit?"
ED CLARK: "Personally, I believe that our momentum did not start because Goldwater jumped over, I think Goldwater jumped over because of our momentum. After all, with the Koch brothers' financial power behind our campaign-"
REPORTER: "But Mr. Clark, does it bother you that Goldwater has explicitly endorsed Ronald Reagan for president and not you?"
ED CLARK: (off-the-record initial reaction) "Oh shit, really?"
“Ronnie didn’t want Jack to debate the other Vice Presidential candidates. He knew he had to, but he didn’t want it to happen. It was a trap and we all knew it. Jack insisted on doing it, though, and it was the longest debate I’ve ever watched – and I’ve watched a lot of them. He stood in the middle of these men and gave them so much respect, while stating his case, staying on point, and debating the issues with dignity…”
- Nancy Reagan
“It was a historic event in the racial history of our nation and we had no idea what to expect. We were all three under a lot of pressure. I wouldn’t say Jack Kemp won the debate, so much as I’d say Coleman Young lost it…”
- Edward Brooke, Vice Presidential Candidate, Independent, 1980
“As crucial in those months as the ringing and active endorsement of celebrities like Elvis Presley was to white southerners, California State Representative Thomas Sowell who, while new to state politics had a long history as an educator and economist, was similarly vital to blacks, liberals, libertarians, and moderate to conservative intellectual independents. While running for the California State Senate in 1980 Sowell met and befriended Rep. Jack Kemp and actively campaigned for the Reagan/Kemp ticket, particularly amongst African American Californians.
As a black educator, a political outsider, a libertarian Republican, and an eloquent supply side advocate, Thomas Sowell would be a pivotal ally to Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp in particular in the coming months, and had an even larger role to play over the course of the turbulent decade which was to follow…”
- Win Just One For The Gipper: How an Actor and an Athlete Shook the Foundations of a Party and Ignited a Revolution, by Chris Matthews
“I think George was restless. Solo United was booming, and even as CEO he had delegated enough responsibility that he had become something of a consultant. He wanted to make movies again, not just to write them. He had a difficult time writing the final installment of Star Wars, and while Raiders was his priority after Rebellion was released, that was a Spielberg movie.
Other than having a producer credit and consulting on special effects, he didn’t have much to do with the other films coming out of SU at that time and he wanted to direct something, I think.
Other than that, things were great. We were happy, and there was little stress. We were comfortable. I began to encourage George to get back in the director’s chair, but it was a long journey for him to get there…”
- Marcia Lucas, 1997
“I had already done all the pre-production work on what was to be my ‘Arthur’ film when I got the call. George [Lucas] had halted the production of an animated version of ‘The Lord of the Rings’ when Solo United gained the rights a few years before. I was mere months away from beginning shooting when George called to tell me that he and Lawrence Kasdan had written a script combining my earlier script with the script for the animated picture. He begged me to read it and consider directing it instead of ‘Excalibur.’
I was skeptical, but he said anything ‘off-the wall’, as he put it, that I wanted to include could be implied. He already had Ralph Bakshi on board as an animation director – he wanted the film to include some animation – and he would throw any resources Solo United had into the project. George would produce it.
I read the script, and although it wasn’t as adult or artistic as I had hoped it would be, you didn’t tell George Lucas ‘no’ in 1980. It was a good script, after all, and a lot of my material was surprisingly intact. I told him that I would direct it, but that the studio would surely reject the idea. New Line has just merged with Orion as a sister of Warner Bros. since Solo United had taken a lot of talent from the latter. Don Bluth and his detractors from Disney had gone to New Line Orion at that time and this was to be their first major motion picture as a unit.
George said he’d already told the studio what was going to happen… he told them.
That was the magical power of Lucas in those days. I wanted one film, and George wanted three, so we settled on a two part film franchise. Of course, I would only direct this first film ultimately, but I am very, very proud of it…”
- John Boorman, commenting on The Lord of the Rings I: The Fellowship
“George wanted to get busy so he tested the waters with Raiders. He was producing and consulting on The Fellowship, but he wasn’t very actively involved after helping to oversee the writing, consulting on the special effects, and then insisting on who would direct it.
He was a much more active producer on Raiders, and directed the second unit. It may have scared him straight, because he didn’t really get that involved in another film for a while, but the result is probably one of my favorite George Lucas films, and I know it’s one of his favorite Spielberg film as well…
I’ve always maintained that if we had had a smaller budget and less time for Raiders, it might have turned out kind of pretentious, more of an action art film rather than the fantastical, archaeological, historical adventure epic it turned into. That was all or mostly George’s doing, I think, too.”
- Steven Spielberg
“When DUNE Pt. I really came together was when we cast Jim [Spader] as Paul Atreides. We were holding open auditions, wanting someone unknown and here was this twenty year old kid who looked thirteen. He was dynamic; all at once a potential ‘heart throb’ yet bookish, with a weirdness and a seriousness and a quirkiness… He looked like he would seem just as at home on a surfboard, in an office, in a trench, or on a throne. He was Paul. Frank Herbert and George Lucas agreed.
We had some amazing acting talent on that picture. Obviously, Harrison Ford in a smaller role as Duncan, a role which he would subsequently reprise, but when you think of the cast: Christopher Lee as the Emperor, Oliver Reed as the Baron Harkonnen, Rutger Hauer as Feyd, Sean Young as Chani… you had Joe Turkel’s Dr. Kynes and Brad Dourif’s Piter De Vries, and in spite of his youth, Willem Dafoe as the Duke Leto… dramatically it was a mega-picture…”
- Ridley Scott
---------------------------------------------------
“We were all communicating and getting on well, y’know. John invited us to come to the studio and have a listen to some songs from the record. We jammed a bit there and Yoko went home to put Sean to bed. John asked us to back him on ‘I’m Losing You’ and then we just did ‘Cleanup Time’ and ‘(Just Like) Starting Over’ in a weekend. Then he gave us the demo tapes to some new, really rough songs he would consider doing as Beatle songs in the next year or so. It finally felt good again. It was time...”
- George Harrison, 1981
“That album was great, John and Yoko both at their best and guest appearances by Cheap Trick [Yoko Ono’s ‘I’m Moving On’] and the Beatles. There couldn’t have been a better album to launch Solo United’s music branch…”
- David Geffen, Solo United Records
“We know what they’re trying to do. They have our films and John is recording their flagship album. They don’t have to be so sneaky about it. The Beatles want to come back. John has to pay us back for backing him on three Lennon songs anyway, so he’s gonna to have to play something I wrote.”
- Paul McCartney, November 1980
---------------------------------------------
SOLO UNITED TO HOST MASSIVE MUSIC FESTIVAL/CONVENTION HYBRID:
“George Lucas, visionary mind behind STAR WARS, inventor of ‘Nerd Cool,’ and head of the ‘major independent’ megacorps Solo United has announced the world’s first ever hybrid Sci-Fi Fantasy Convention and Music Festival to be held in San Francisco summer of ’81.
A week long unofficial lead-in to the festival will involve car shows, comics conventions, and contests but the main event is a three day convention by day, music festival by night. Minor artists will perform short sets during the convention and minor and major artists will introduce special guests, while at night the authors, actors, and filmmakers of nerd genre legend will introduce the bands (who will play on stages built from sets and props of actual Solo United pictures).
Solo United has announced it will also be coordinating laser, light, pyrotechnic, and multimedia film special effects during the performances.
Among those expected to attend the weekend panels are Frank Herbert, Gene Roddenberry, Steven Spielberg, Francis Ford Coppola, John Milius, the cast of both Star Trek and Star Wars, as well as George Lucas himself.
Verified to be performing at night are Joy Division who have recently extended their first U.S. tour due to their single ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ climbing the charts.
Euphorium will certainly be a diverse collection of music, and according to Lucas, that’s by design.
Artists verified or rumored to appear: The B-52s, The Cars, The Cure, Devo, The Talking Heads featuring Brian Eno, Stray Cats, Ramones, Hawkwind, Public Image Ltd., Prince, the Knack, Rick James, Blondie, Kraftwerk, Michael Jackson, Dire Straights, The Police, U2, Donna Summer, Queen, and Gary Numan (although SU promises more announcements closer to the festival).
Performing between sets are the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by John Williams, who will no doubt collaborate with the more contemporary headliners.
True to the inaugural year’s theme of ‘hybrids’ acts rumored to headline are the Doors featuring David Bowie, The Who featuring John Bonham, and Elvis Presley; although there have been whispers that Solo United Record’s own John Lennon will come out of retirement to close out the show. With Solo United owning the rights to the Beatles’ films and the band rumored to be back on friendly terms… well, we’ll just leave it at that.
According to Lucas, the combination of smaller, underground, or up and coming acts with music legends is a part of a commitment to introduce various demographics of music consumer both to one another, as well as to the music that they haven’t heard and to do so in an exciting and memorable way.”
- LA Weekly, October 1980
~~~
38.53% Ronald Reagan / Jack Kemp (Republican)
37.46% Jerry Brown / Coleman Young (Democratic)
19.69% John B. Anderson / Edward Brooke (Independent)
3.76% Ed Clark / David H. Koch (Libertarian)
0.56% Other
"In the end, I think if Brown had run on his record, he could have won. He wasn't some far-out liberal, he was really even more fiscally conservative than Reagan, and I think that could have had appeal businessmen if he'd capitalized on it. I mean, I supported Brown, and I'm the son of a small town businessman. My dad was conservative, Brown was conservative and I'm very conservative, always have been."
-George Lucas, interview for Playboy magazine, 1997
MIKE WALLACE: "And why do you think that you were ultimately unsuccessful?"
JOHN ANDERSON: "In a way, I was successful. I was able to coalesce the moderate vote around my candidacy."
MIKE WALLACE: "What do you think of the charge that you were merely a spoiler for the Republicans that year?"
(long pause)
JOHN ANDERSON: "In a way, I can see where they're coming from. Despite the more... complicated results in the presidential election, that the Republicans actually won the House and Senate leads me to believe that the split-ticket voting hurt the Republicans more than the Democrats. But still, when you look at the-"
MIKE WALLACE: "Excuse me, but I have to ask: do you believe, as some have suggested, that adding a black man to your ticket hurt your chances?"
JOHN ANDERSON: "Well, firstly, I reject the cynical notion that in this day and age any significant number of Americans would not vote for someone solely due to the color of their skin. Think of it this way - between our ticket and the Democratic ticket, a strong majority of Americans chose a ticket with a person of color on it. And if we can talk about Ed (Brooke) specifically, I believe he added a lot to the campaign. He's very charismatic and an articulate speaker, and won over many classical New England moderates to our side. I wish him all the best in the upcoming Massachusetts gubernatorial election."
-John Anderson interview on 60 Minutes, 1982
"Fifty-state strategy, Jerry. That's your only viable path forward."
"…so, what you're saying is, you want me to try to be everything to everyone?"
"Oh, c'mon, it's more complicated than-"
"Give me a straight answer, Howard."
(long pause)
"Yes, Jerry, yes I do."
(longer pause)
"Well… how do we make this work?"
-Howard Dean, head advisor to the 1980 Jerry Brown campaign, giving advice to the man himself. Dean had worked his way up from a Democratic activist in formerly solidly-Republican Vermont to becoming a member of Brown's inner circle during primary system. After the Democratic National Convention, he proposed the aforementioned "fifty-state strategy". He believed that the Democrats had been conceding too much of the electoral map to the Republicans in recent decades, and believed that this trend needed to be reversed for his party to move forward.
On the other had, Brown believed that with Reagan consolidating the conservatives and Anderson consolidating the moderates, it would make little sense to do anything but run a liberal campaign, in order to rally the base. In the end, though, Dean convinced him to at least compete in every state, knowing that the highly-fractured electorate could allow him to make breakthroughs in unexpected areas. And, surprisingly, it did.
“I couldn’t believe my God damn ears. Ronald Reagan used the words ‘states rights’ and ‘civil rights’, both positively, in the same speech, in the same sentence, in the same breath, in the same mother fucking city where they killed Dr. King!”
- Coleman Young, Vice Presidential Candidate for the Democratic Party, 1980
“That was why he was the Great Communicator. He wasn’t a racist but he didn’t believe it was the government’s job to fix the racial issues in this country – LBJ ghettoizing the African American community less than twenty years before had shown that clearly enough. He also wasn’t an idiot. He knew race was a part of this election whether he liked it or not.
So, after a day around Memphis with Elvis Presley and the Mayor as hosts, including a brief speech, photo op, and prayer at the Lorraine Hotel, there was a rally at Graceland. The crowd was racially and politically diverse, and all ages were in attendance. He gave the ‘states rights and civil rights speech’ and people went crazy.
Had it been another man it might have backfired, but it was Ronnie. The blacks heard ‘civil’ and the southern whites heard ‘states’ and everyone cheered.
Had we gone to Philadelphia, Mississippi like we had at first planned, it might have been a catastrophe…”
- Jack Kemp, Vice Presidential Candidate for the Republican Party, 1980
"I'm sorry, I love Jack Kemp, but that man's a sap. He really believes all of that! Honestly, he bought the whole Republican package, the whole 'cutting taxes'... 'we want to cut this' crap. I mean, those kinds of phrases... it's transparently obvious to any voter what we were getting at. I was the man who produced the 'Soft on Crime' ad in the primaries. Yes, we were trying to appeal to the former Wallace voter, the Archie Bunkers of the world. And no amount of Uncle Toms the Grand Old Party parades around today will change the fact that the party has an economic policy that will never win over the blacks and the other racial minorities in large numbers, and that's no accident - that's by design!
...But I suppose the one redeeming thing about him (Kemp) is that he legitimately does not have a racist bone in his body. He really does think he's helping people..."
- Controversial deathbed interview with Republican strategist Lee Atwater, 1991
"Goddammit! Reagan's going soft on me! First he toned it down on state's rights… now he's denouncing our Senate candidate in California! Now why in the hell would he do that? John G. Schmitz is a good conservative! I tell you what it is, David. It's that Kemp. Had it been Rumsfeld, Bush… they would have gotten the memo. But this Kemp guy feels like he needs to be this Civil Rights hero. It's just… I feel like we conservatives need to send to send Reagan a nice big ol' message-"
You want to send him a message, Mr. Marshall? Cut a check for my brother's campaign. This is what I've been trying to tell you. The Libertarians are the viable conservative alternatives to the Republicans! Barry Goldwater's our Senate candidate! So send the message. Send the message that the Republicans ignore the right-wing at their own peril."
-J. Howard Marshall and David Koch having a conversation in a Texas country club. David's brother, Charles, was the running mate to Libertarian nominee Ed Clark in the 1980 presidential election.
"...and the mainstream media, when they even address my candidacy at all, they ask me two questions: 'Ed Clark, aren't you just like Ronald Reagan'-"
(Loud BOOES from the crowd, someone screams "TRAITOR!")
"...and then they ask why I am running if I have no chance of winning, according to them. Well, let me tell you something, folks. Rarely will you hear a Libertarian openly compare himself to a socialist, but let me tell you the story of Eugene V. Debs. A lot of you might not know who he is, but he was a very famous man in the early 20th century. He was an organizer for the Socialist Party known for his, uh, political skills. People asked him the very same question that they are asking me today when he threw his hat in the ring in 1912. And you know why he did it? To build up the down ballot strength of the Socialist Party. To get people elected to school boards, city councils, state legislatures... hell, maybe even Congress."
(Points out Dick Randolph, the Libertarian nominee for the House of Representatives from Alaska's at-large district, a former Republican state representatives. The crowd cheers loudly)
"...my friends, my friends... they'll call us extreme, but let me remind you all of a quote from our Senate candidate down in Arizona, Barry Goldwater--"
(The crowd goes absolutely wild)
"...extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!"
-Ed Clark presidential rally in Anchorage, Alaska
~~~
Later, Ed Clark is being interviewed by the Anchorage Daily News.
REPORTER: "Seeing how you appropriated a lot of Goldwater's rhetoric, and how the audience reacted to that, is it fair to say that Goldwater deciding to run for reelection as a Libertarian this year garnered your campaign a lot of extra publicity, maybe even inflated your poll numbers a bit?"
ED CLARK: "Personally, I believe that our momentum did not start because Goldwater jumped over, I think Goldwater jumped over because of our momentum. After all, with the Koch brothers' financial power behind our campaign-"
REPORTER: "But Mr. Clark, does it bother you that Goldwater has explicitly endorsed Ronald Reagan for president and not you?"
ED CLARK: (off-the-record initial reaction) "Oh shit, really?"
“Ronnie didn’t want Jack to debate the other Vice Presidential candidates. He knew he had to, but he didn’t want it to happen. It was a trap and we all knew it. Jack insisted on doing it, though, and it was the longest debate I’ve ever watched – and I’ve watched a lot of them. He stood in the middle of these men and gave them so much respect, while stating his case, staying on point, and debating the issues with dignity…”
- Nancy Reagan
“It was a historic event in the racial history of our nation and we had no idea what to expect. We were all three under a lot of pressure. I wouldn’t say Jack Kemp won the debate, so much as I’d say Coleman Young lost it…”
- Edward Brooke, Vice Presidential Candidate, Independent, 1980
“As crucial in those months as the ringing and active endorsement of celebrities like Elvis Presley was to white southerners, California State Representative Thomas Sowell who, while new to state politics had a long history as an educator and economist, was similarly vital to blacks, liberals, libertarians, and moderate to conservative intellectual independents. While running for the California State Senate in 1980 Sowell met and befriended Rep. Jack Kemp and actively campaigned for the Reagan/Kemp ticket, particularly amongst African American Californians.
As a black educator, a political outsider, a libertarian Republican, and an eloquent supply side advocate, Thomas Sowell would be a pivotal ally to Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp in particular in the coming months, and had an even larger role to play over the course of the turbulent decade which was to follow…”
- Win Just One For The Gipper: How an Actor and an Athlete Shook the Foundations of a Party and Ignited a Revolution, by Chris Matthews
“I think George was restless. Solo United was booming, and even as CEO he had delegated enough responsibility that he had become something of a consultant. He wanted to make movies again, not just to write them. He had a difficult time writing the final installment of Star Wars, and while Raiders was his priority after Rebellion was released, that was a Spielberg movie.
Other than having a producer credit and consulting on special effects, he didn’t have much to do with the other films coming out of SU at that time and he wanted to direct something, I think.
Other than that, things were great. We were happy, and there was little stress. We were comfortable. I began to encourage George to get back in the director’s chair, but it was a long journey for him to get there…”
- Marcia Lucas, 1997
“I had already done all the pre-production work on what was to be my ‘Arthur’ film when I got the call. George [Lucas] had halted the production of an animated version of ‘The Lord of the Rings’ when Solo United gained the rights a few years before. I was mere months away from beginning shooting when George called to tell me that he and Lawrence Kasdan had written a script combining my earlier script with the script for the animated picture. He begged me to read it and consider directing it instead of ‘Excalibur.’
I was skeptical, but he said anything ‘off-the wall’, as he put it, that I wanted to include could be implied. He already had Ralph Bakshi on board as an animation director – he wanted the film to include some animation – and he would throw any resources Solo United had into the project. George would produce it.
I read the script, and although it wasn’t as adult or artistic as I had hoped it would be, you didn’t tell George Lucas ‘no’ in 1980. It was a good script, after all, and a lot of my material was surprisingly intact. I told him that I would direct it, but that the studio would surely reject the idea. New Line has just merged with Orion as a sister of Warner Bros. since Solo United had taken a lot of talent from the latter. Don Bluth and his detractors from Disney had gone to New Line Orion at that time and this was to be their first major motion picture as a unit.
George said he’d already told the studio what was going to happen… he told them.
That was the magical power of Lucas in those days. I wanted one film, and George wanted three, so we settled on a two part film franchise. Of course, I would only direct this first film ultimately, but I am very, very proud of it…”
- John Boorman, commenting on The Lord of the Rings I: The Fellowship
“George wanted to get busy so he tested the waters with Raiders. He was producing and consulting on The Fellowship, but he wasn’t very actively involved after helping to oversee the writing, consulting on the special effects, and then insisting on who would direct it.
He was a much more active producer on Raiders, and directed the second unit. It may have scared him straight, because he didn’t really get that involved in another film for a while, but the result is probably one of my favorite George Lucas films, and I know it’s one of his favorite Spielberg film as well…
I’ve always maintained that if we had had a smaller budget and less time for Raiders, it might have turned out kind of pretentious, more of an action art film rather than the fantastical, archaeological, historical adventure epic it turned into. That was all or mostly George’s doing, I think, too.”
- Steven Spielberg
“When DUNE Pt. I really came together was when we cast Jim [Spader] as Paul Atreides. We were holding open auditions, wanting someone unknown and here was this twenty year old kid who looked thirteen. He was dynamic; all at once a potential ‘heart throb’ yet bookish, with a weirdness and a seriousness and a quirkiness… He looked like he would seem just as at home on a surfboard, in an office, in a trench, or on a throne. He was Paul. Frank Herbert and George Lucas agreed.
We had some amazing acting talent on that picture. Obviously, Harrison Ford in a smaller role as Duncan, a role which he would subsequently reprise, but when you think of the cast: Christopher Lee as the Emperor, Oliver Reed as the Baron Harkonnen, Rutger Hauer as Feyd, Sean Young as Chani… you had Joe Turkel’s Dr. Kynes and Brad Dourif’s Piter De Vries, and in spite of his youth, Willem Dafoe as the Duke Leto… dramatically it was a mega-picture…”
- Ridley Scott
---------------------------------------------------
“We were all communicating and getting on well, y’know. John invited us to come to the studio and have a listen to some songs from the record. We jammed a bit there and Yoko went home to put Sean to bed. John asked us to back him on ‘I’m Losing You’ and then we just did ‘Cleanup Time’ and ‘(Just Like) Starting Over’ in a weekend. Then he gave us the demo tapes to some new, really rough songs he would consider doing as Beatle songs in the next year or so. It finally felt good again. It was time...”
- George Harrison, 1981
“That album was great, John and Yoko both at their best and guest appearances by Cheap Trick [Yoko Ono’s ‘I’m Moving On’] and the Beatles. There couldn’t have been a better album to launch Solo United’s music branch…”
- David Geffen, Solo United Records
“We know what they’re trying to do. They have our films and John is recording their flagship album. They don’t have to be so sneaky about it. The Beatles want to come back. John has to pay us back for backing him on three Lennon songs anyway, so he’s gonna to have to play something I wrote.”
- Paul McCartney, November 1980
---------------------------------------------
SOLO UNITED TO HOST MASSIVE MUSIC FESTIVAL/CONVENTION HYBRID:
“George Lucas, visionary mind behind STAR WARS, inventor of ‘Nerd Cool,’ and head of the ‘major independent’ megacorps Solo United has announced the world’s first ever hybrid Sci-Fi Fantasy Convention and Music Festival to be held in San Francisco summer of ’81.
A week long unofficial lead-in to the festival will involve car shows, comics conventions, and contests but the main event is a three day convention by day, music festival by night. Minor artists will perform short sets during the convention and minor and major artists will introduce special guests, while at night the authors, actors, and filmmakers of nerd genre legend will introduce the bands (who will play on stages built from sets and props of actual Solo United pictures).
Solo United has announced it will also be coordinating laser, light, pyrotechnic, and multimedia film special effects during the performances.
Among those expected to attend the weekend panels are Frank Herbert, Gene Roddenberry, Steven Spielberg, Francis Ford Coppola, John Milius, the cast of both Star Trek and Star Wars, as well as George Lucas himself.
Verified to be performing at night are Joy Division who have recently extended their first U.S. tour due to their single ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ climbing the charts.
Euphorium will certainly be a diverse collection of music, and according to Lucas, that’s by design.
Artists verified or rumored to appear: The B-52s, The Cars, The Cure, Devo, The Talking Heads featuring Brian Eno, Stray Cats, Ramones, Hawkwind, Public Image Ltd., Prince, the Knack, Rick James, Blondie, Kraftwerk, Michael Jackson, Dire Straights, The Police, U2, Donna Summer, Queen, and Gary Numan (although SU promises more announcements closer to the festival).
Performing between sets are the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by John Williams, who will no doubt collaborate with the more contemporary headliners.
True to the inaugural year’s theme of ‘hybrids’ acts rumored to headline are the Doors featuring David Bowie, The Who featuring John Bonham, and Elvis Presley; although there have been whispers that Solo United Record’s own John Lennon will come out of retirement to close out the show. With Solo United owning the rights to the Beatles’ films and the band rumored to be back on friendly terms… well, we’ll just leave it at that.
According to Lucas, the combination of smaller, underground, or up and coming acts with music legends is a part of a commitment to introduce various demographics of music consumer both to one another, as well as to the music that they haven’t heard and to do so in an exciting and memorable way.”
- LA Weekly, October 1980
~~~
38.53% Ronald Reagan / Jack Kemp (Republican)
37.46% Jerry Brown / Coleman Young (Democratic)
19.69% John B. Anderson / Edward Brooke (Independent)
3.76% Ed Clark / David H. Koch (Libertarian)
0.56% Other
"In the end, I think if Brown had run on his record, he could have won. He wasn't some far-out liberal, he was really even more fiscally conservative than Reagan, and I think that could have had appeal businessmen if he'd capitalized on it. I mean, I supported Brown, and I'm the son of a small town businessman. My dad was conservative, Brown was conservative and I'm very conservative, always have been."
-George Lucas, interview for Playboy magazine, 1997
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Got some acknowledgements for this latest update. First, thanks to The Admiral Hook for inviting me to contribute to this TL in the first place (and he wrote the lion's share of this update, including a lot of the political stuff). Thanks to Plumber for helping us develop the electoral college map (and I promise readers that he and I are still actively working on No Longer Jack). And thanks to Archangel Michael and DTanza for helping me proofread.
Another update will come in a few days, focusing on congressional elections and movies that came out in the winter of 1980.
Another update will come in a few days, focusing on congressional elections and movies that came out in the winter of 1980.
Yay, it's back!
What's the story behind the faithless elector for Jimmy Carter in GA?
After his accident, and absent Reagan beating him in a landslide, Carter is a far more beloved figure in the South in this timeline, being seen as a "good Democrat" who was cheated out of renomination by the evil, liberal Jerry Brown.
In his home state of Georgia, this is even more pronounced.
Good to see this timeline make a triumphant return, and especially in anticipation of what's cooking in the coming updates.
Andrew beat me to the punch asking about the faithless elector, though he picked a different one than I had in mind: why did Wallace get the vote from Tennessee? Are Southern Democrats still that faithful to him? And for that matter, why was Tennessee the only Southern state to go Democratic, anyway?
Andrew beat me to the punch asking about the faithless elector, though he picked a different one than I had in mind: why did Wallace get the vote from Tennessee? Are Southern Democrats still that faithful to him? And for that matter, why was Tennessee the only Southern state to go Democratic, anyway?
Think of it this way: in a slate ten Democratic electors in 1980 Tennessee, there's bound to be at least one guy who wouldn't to be able to stomach voting for a ticket with a black man on it, and Wallace was still a very popular figure in the South at that time. Remember, he was elected Governor of Alabama as 1982 (though, in all fairness, he had publicly reformed by then).
Anyway, as for how it was decided how the electoral college map would look in this election, Plumber simply used the universal swing model popular in the Alternate Electoral Maps thread. I'm sure he won't mind me quoting him at length from one of our PM discussions on the matter:
Plumber said: