Gone The New Hope

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by The Admiral Hook, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. The Admiral Hook M*thaf*ckin' Radical...

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    "Friends, family, filmmakers, and fellow actors mourn the tragic loss of television actor Mark Hamill who died yesterday the eleventh of January in an automobile accident. Hamill, 25, was just completing work on the highly anticipated science fiction epic: STAR WARS; which would have been Hamill's big screen debut in a leading role. Memorial services will...
    "




    "Obviously we will dedicate Star Wars to Mark, just as Mark dedicated himself to Star Wars. This tragedy extends not just to his friends, family, and co-stars but to the future of film in general. We cast Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker because of his light, his spirit, and of course, his prodigious skill as an actor. We're all in a state of shock and mourning, but Mark would want the show to go on, and that's what we're going to do for him."



    - George Lucas, January 12th, 1977



    "He was just a beautiful guy and a great actor and fun just seemed to follow him around. Mark, Harrison, and myself all grew very close during the filming and he became like something of a brother to me personally. I'm devastated by all of this. It's an enormous loss to Hollywood."



    - Carrie Fisher, January 12th, 1977



    "No comment yet from relative newcomer Harrison Ford on his fellow co-star. Meanwhile, director George Lucas has stated that while the May 25th release date may have become somewhat elastic while the studio examines possible reshoots or even significant plot changes, post-production of the special effects heavy project will continue on schedule...
    "



    MARK RICHARD HAMILL


    SEPTEMBER 25th, 1951 - JANUARY 11th, 1977

    insider_137_mark.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  2. John Fredrick Parker Donor

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    Well this will change the Star Wars franchise -- not to mention the Joker...
     
  3. The Admiral Hook M*thaf*ckin' Radical...

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    Damn right.

    Update possibly tomorrow. Thanks for reading!
     
  4. Lalli Well-Known Member

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    Very intresting cultural POD. This has quiet large affect for movie culture. Intresting to see what direction Star Wars saga takes.
     
  5. Grey Wolf Writer, Poet, Publisher, Cat-sitter Gone Fishin'

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    Amusingly, Hamill may become in people's imagination a proto superstar the like of which he never actually became in reality...

    Best Regards
    Grey Wolf
     
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  6. Lalli Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps similar status as James Dean or Heath Ledger. It of course depends how succesful Star Wars is ITTL and make Lucas even sequels which of course would be totally different and how long people are intrested about SW.
     
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  7. Kalvan Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I don't think Lucas would be quite that clueless. Skywalker is the character the original trilogy revolves around. It would destroy the versimilitude of the story to pull a The Other Darrin with Billy Mumy, Michael J. Fox, or William Zabka.

    He'll probably try to push something like Willow or Red Tails instead. BTW, how many up and coming midgets were there in Hollywood or Great Britain at that moment? Warwick Davis and Peter Dinklage were still in grade school at the time.
     
  8. mattep74 Well-Known Member

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    In the words of Yoda/Ben Kenobi from ESB: No, there is another one.

    GL might change the story in ESB and ROTJ to make Leia the one that the story evolves around and Luke is killed on Hoth while out scouting(off screen off course)
     
  9. Orville_third Banned

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    There is Deep Roy, who would later go on to appear in Star Wars (as a minor character) Star Trek:The Reboot (as Scotty's silent flunky), and as all the Oompa-Loompas in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. His last big role was as Mr. Sin, the Peking Homunculus in the Doctor Who episode, "The Talons of Weng-Chiang."
     
  10. The Admiral Hook M*thaf*ckin' Radical...

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    Not to give too much away, but that's certainly the direction in which this appears to be going, yes.

    Well, considering the POD is only about five or six months away from a release with about as much hype and as little competition as SW iOTL, then add the posthumous movie star... Star Wars will be a success, possibly more so than OTL.

    The franchise, of course, goes a little dark. But I assure you, there will be sequels. You know Lucas...

    What Original Trilogy? ITTL we're not even at the release of the original film... Some revisions will change an awful lot about Star Wars but Lucas and Fox would have to be clueless not to write more of them.

    And also, I've already written them.

    And midgets? Really?

    Keep guessing. You'll be quite satisfied with TTL's canon but it will not be a Leiawank. (anybody else love the term Leiawank?)

    This timeline will also go into other aspects of popular culture, but of course will focus on film. Not necessarily just Lucas' films, either.

    I hope you all enjoy it when I get a chance to organize my notes. Tonight or tomorrow.
     
  11. Kalvan Well-Known Member

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    If Harrison Ford had died towards the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, would Lucas and Spielberg really have chosen to make Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom or Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade? If Sylvester Stallone had died during or just after the production of First Blood, whould the producers have tried to recast Rambo? If Sigourney Weaver had been paralyzed from the waist down during the shooting of Alien, or Scwartzeneger or Linda Hamilton had lost an arm while filming The Terminator, would the show really have gone on to Aliens and Terminator 2? Would Lucas and Fox have really wanted to risk a box office flop that could have destroyed the company like Cleopatra nearly did and Heaven's Gate and Cutthroat Island actuall did to United Artists and Carralco, respectively, and the ill will of fans who would have felt exploited?

    And Lucas had had the outline for the Willow series written up before he even started up on what became Star Wars. Willow was always meant to be a very short person, as a Shout Out to Bilbo and Frodo Baggins. The only reason Davis got it OTL was because he had been in the right place at the right time to impress Lucas as Wickett in Return of the Jedi.

    And please don't mention The Godfather or The Crow as counterexamples. In the former, Marlon Brando didn't die, Mario Puzo simply killed him off in the source material. And in the latter, subsequent Crows were explicitly not Eric Draven, and they still stunk out loud, and from movies three on they were purely direct-to-video!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  12. Kalvan Well-Known Member

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    Just saw a few pictures of him. He would have been perfect as an early '80s Willow, and a pretty good late '80s-90s Thorn Drumheller too.
     
  13. mattep74 Well-Known Member

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    My life will not change until ROTJ is out since i didnt encounter SW before ROTJ came out and SVT aired ANH at that time.

    I will not have a X-wing and other toys to play with, but maybe i get other toys
     
  14. e of pi Layers on Top of Layers

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    I'm interested in seeing where you take this. Lucas put a lot of himself--or his self-image, anyway, into Luke. I mean, heck, luke at the name! :p I can't imagine that having one of his stars die would be something he'd shrug off easily. And the Lucas of the original Star Wars wasn't the egomaniac mogul he became later--that was something that really emerged during the stress of the later movies in the trilogy and the collapse of his marriage from what I can tell. Without that...I don't know, could be interesting.
     
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  15. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    Great to see you tackling this excellent potential POD, and it's interesting to see where you'll take Star Wars from here.

    It's remarkably easy to have Luke die tragically during the final battle - just make it so that he sacrifices himself instead of narrowly escaping. The model shots would be done in post-production - after Hamill's tragic death - so there won't be a need to change them. The ending would have to be re-shot, changing the triumphant medal scene to a more sombre - but perhaps quietly optimistic - funeral sequence. Unfortunately, we can't have Guinness coming in as a "force ghost", because then Luke should be able to, as well.

    With regards to sequels... Star Wars as a film is pretty stand-alone. Sure it's set against the backdrop of a civil war, and there is the blatant hook of Vader being thrown clear out of the way during the final battle. But on the whole, there's no need for a sequel. But then you wouldn't have much of a timeline if there weren't one, I understand. Still, I must agree with e of pi that the George Lucas of 1977 was not quite the same man as the George Lucas of, say, twenty years later - or even seven years later. It's not so much that he is more restrained, it's just that - at the time - he was far more willing to surround himself with those who could keep him in check.

    All that said, I look forward to seeing what you come up with next! Consider me subscribed.
     
  16. mattep74 Well-Known Member

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    Vader kills Luke just as Han sweeps in with the Falcon and destroys his wingman and then the Falcon shots the vent
     
  17. e of pi Layers on Top of Layers

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    Having the Falcon take the shot defeats the point of the trench run, but it's workable if Luke gets off the shot just as Vader destroys him, maybe. Fixable with models and some re-shot dialogue, maybe--and of course a new end celebration scene.
     
  18. The Admiral Hook M*thaf*ckin' Radical...

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    I just thought we weren't supposed to say "midget".

    And in this timeline, I am examining the rethinking of the franchise post Hamill. In the next update, you'll see a lot of the very arguments you yourself are making. Ultimately, though, with the increased success of Star Wars in TTL and the subsequent studio pressure to exploit the box office sales and the two brand new A listers, in addition to Lucas and co. doing some serious soul searching...

    Well, there will be more than one Star Wars. I'm giving away too many spoilers already...

    I think you'll be surprised with the plot synopsis I've worked on.

    No, he's not there yet, you're right. And yes, Luke dying will be bad for Lucas in a lot of ways.

    Thanks, and agreed on all points. The Lucas in TTL is going to be completely different from either Lucas OTL.
     
  19. Turek User

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    Wow. Major cultural POD. Looking forward to see where this goes.
     
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  20. ColeMercury is male, FYI

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    Guys -- LUKE DOESN'T NEED TO DIE.

    The entire film has already been shot -- all that remains is completing the editing. The ending works perfectly. Why spoil it?

    Here's the thing: if there are sequels, Luke doesn't need to appear in them. It's a big universe, after all. They can quite easily jump around from place to place and between different sets of characters. In fact, when Lucas first got the impression that Star Wars may be a success, he imagined a twelve-film saga where other directors and writers would work on the sequels and he'd be the executive producer and write the initial story treatments (much like his position on Indiana Jones). This sort of structure lends itself well to that sort of decentralised idea.

    So there can be a gap of one or two films where Luke and the Rebels don't have to appear at all. And by the time they reappear, sufficient time will have passed that Luke could be played by someone else.

    (I know it's poor form to barge in on someone else's TL and start making suggestions, but I do actually have a suggestion: the original Star Wars does repeatedly mention how Han has a price on his head and is being hunted by Jabba the Hutt, but it never really goes anywhere. Ideal material to address in a sequel, wouldn't you think?)
     
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