Golden Ages That Stay Gold

Here I examine three "golden ages" for various regions that happened around the same time, only to collapse around the same time for various reasons. The challenge is to find a way for any of them, or even all of them, to continue on or at least last much longer and not go away as catastrophically.

1. The Tang Dynasty. Often considered China's golden age, marked by splendor, extravagance, and expansive borders going all the way to Central Asia. Now, this is actually the one I'm least familiar with here so I'd need a lot of help with that. Basically, the idea is to have the Tang dynasty last longer and not just crumble. Any political reforms needed to change things is okay. I'd even allow a change of dynasty if necessary as long as the other dynasty takes over quickly without losing much or any land and is also Han, so as not to alienate everyone like the Yuan and Qing. The whole idea is to preserve the culture and technological progress and all that. A bonus would be to have Taoism become more important than Confucianism, if not replace it entirely. Because Taoism is cool.

2. India. Before the Muslim invasions India was doing pretty damned excellent, what with being the richest place in the world and all. My idea here was to actually have the kingdoms unite to the point where ultimately India is mostly ruled by two Hindu kingdoms, one in the north and one in the south. The north Indian nation would rule all the land referred to as "Aryavarta" in the epics, and possibly use Sanskrit as a national/unifying language, or at least have a similar status and widespreadness as Latin in the West. The best choice I see would be to have the Gurjara-Pratiharas doing all that, as the ruler already did proclaim himself at one point as the Maharaja of Aryavarta. Most, if not all of the land in the south would likewise be unified, probably under the Chola Empire, ruled from either Thanjavur or Gangaikonda Cholapuram. This is a particularly fun one as they had colonies and vassals all around the Bay of Bengal, even in Indonesia.

3. My area of expertise, Mesoamerica. Some aspects of this I've already covered in my TL, the Maya do have an extensive history that makes this easier for them. On the other hand, I also include Mexico here. Averting the Collapse of the Classic Period shouldn't be too hard, there were various reasons for it and I've thought up various solutions already, some of them would have to be spread to Mexico and vice-versa. The problem however is Teotihuacan. They are the big superpower of the region, more powerful even than Tenochtitlan. Hell, Tikal's ruling dynasty was installed by them and traced their lineage to a Teotihuacano prince. Unfortunately we know nothing about the city itself, or at least very, very little. Even their ethnic identity is a mystery, I want to say Nahua but that's probably not true at all.

Anyway, what would be your guys' solutions to averting any or all of these collapses? What are possible consequences of any or all these scenarios happening? All of them happening is particularly interesting.
 

Seraphiel

Banned
I can only say i never knew that about Mesoamerica.

But i once read something that if the Mayans had been more careful about cutting down trees to build their monuments that their Golden Age could perhaps have lasted longer.
 
I can only say i never knew that about Mesoamerica.

But i once read something that if the Mayans had been more careful about cutting down trees to build their monuments that their Golden Age could perhaps have lasted longer.
The truth is at least later they actually did try, apparently they had sacred or royal groves preserved, large swaths of trees that were not allowed to be cut down. And the cities themselves had plenty of gardens.
 
Interesting ideas, but outside the areas I know enough about to even make a general sort of observation on.

Sorry.
 
The truth is at least later they actually did try, apparently they had sacred or royal groves preserved, large swaths of trees that were not allowed to be cut down. And the cities themselves had plenty of gardens.

Would a prevention of the development of places such as Dos Pilas and other offshoots of Tikal help through limiting competition for prestige and resources?
 
It's not that I don't care for these three periods/locations, i'm pretty much a fan of all history. But I'm keenly aware that I lack the expertise and knowledge that I feel I'd need to offer much.

If you'd asked about Assyria or Babylon or Achaemenid Persia, that would be different :p

But since we're here, do you feel that civilizations/polities native to India would have been able to resist Islamic invasion had things been slightly different, or would this require prior things to go wrong with the progress of Islam?
 
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Would a prevention of the development of places such as Dos Pilas and other offshoots of Tikal help through limiting competition for prestige and resources?
Dos Pilas is the only really troublesome offshoot of Tikal. The struggle between them and Tikal was as personal as it gets. Dos Pilas was founded by the brother of Tikal's king, originally as a sort of colony or vassal to watch over the Petexbatun region, but Dos Pilas eventually turned to the side of Tikal's greatest rival and even sacked Tikal itself at one point. As further insult to injury, they referred to their city by the same name Tikal did, Mutul, prompting Tikal to call itself "First Mutul". The other vassals of Tikal were not so rebellious, some of them, especially Copan, were set up by the same people who planted Tikal's dynasty: Teotihuacan. The founder of Copan seems to have gotten his authority from both them and Tikal.

Anyways, beyond making sure the Dos Pilas dynasty dies a nasty, well-deserved death, the best way to avert the Classic Collapse would be to institute a great many of the changes seen in the Terminal Classic. In the Terminal/Postclassic periods, gardens were even more common and the state created many on their own along with groves and preserves. Also, building projects were not quite as common, household shrines became more important as they stopped making so many gigantic pyramids. And rule was generally decentralized. Other advances that could help, many of them created in the Classic but could perhaps be a bit more widespread, are various irrigation techniques. The city of Edzna had a massive and sophisticated system of canals and moats. During the wet season excess water would drain off into the fields, and during the dry season they'd still be full of water to carry there. Chinampas as seen in Tenochtitlan were also used often by the Maya and could perhaps be used more often along with the canals. This would help with sustaining the population that is now in the tens of millions. In Mexico they could learn to preserve forests carefully as well, as this was a major problem for Teotihuacan.

As for India, let's assume here that the Gurjara-Pratiharas succeed in pushing the Pala empire back to Bengal and take the entire north of India. And these Maharajas of Aryavarta proceed to smash every Muslim invasion coming from Afghanistan or wherever, preventing the looting and destruction countless kingdoms, who are now vassals of the Aryavarta emperor. To the south, the Cholas have taken all of Dravida by ceasing the policy of giving defeated enemy kings a place back as vassal, and install vassals from their own kingdom instead. This more ruthless policy ensures the loyalty of added realms, and now the Cholas rules the entire Indian Ocean pretty much. The losers here, besides the dozens of Indian kingdoms who just got crushed or forced to submit, are the Muslim empires that don't get the vast treasures of India they got IOTL.

And in China, the Tang emperor ensures loyalty from his generals, creating a meritocratic system that nevertheless is extremely bureaucratic and keeps people from being too ambitious for their own good. After many rebellions and wars that shake the infrastructure of China, the Tang remain strong unlike OTL, and the Tang culture stays pretty much the same. Daoism gets more favor from the emperors now than Confucianism, which becomes much less significant. Many scientific and technological advancements as seen in the Song are still made here, albeit under a stronger rule that stretches around the borders of Tibet from Xinjiang all the way to Manchuria the northern border of Vietnam. Korea is a submissive neighbor, and many diplomats and embassies of the Tang court go from Chang'an to not just Korea, but to Japan, Vietnam, Champa, Angkor, and even all the way to the Chola court in Gangaikonda Cholapuram. The glorious reign of the Tang may have flickered in troublesome times, but now it shines brighter than ever.

So, in this world, in say 1400 or so, China remains a single empire ruled by the Han people, possibly still of the Tang dynasty though that's not completely necessary. India is just two powerful Hindu nations, one the master of the Ganges and the other the master of an ocean. In Mesoamerica the landscape is divided between three or four local superpowers, one in Mexico and at least two on the Yucatan peninsula. What result may this have on Europe by this time? Or the Muslim empires? And for that matter, what do you think the contact with the New World would look like in a world such as this where the East still shines brighter than the West in the Old World?
 
Ah, so for the Maya we see a more common (dare I say near-universal) situation which has been observed where outside of the Ceremonial core the city spreads out over an area of perhaps 30-40 square kilometers, but where the population density is perhaps only a few dozen per square kilometer, the rest of the land being a patchwork of small fields, ponds, minor shrines, groves and gardens utilising a variety of different land management schemes depending on the exact environment at each point.

This could look very interesting when and if the Europeans ever arrive.
 
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